God forbid PARENTS decide what they feel is best for their children! I took my kids to church, they loved it and still believe the Bible today but I didn't FORCE them to believe, I just exposed them to the beliefs.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Actually, most people don't. I'm quite sure your parents are christian, as were theirs. Religion is not really as much a matter of choice, as of upbringing. Only peope who are of another religion than they were born with are people either i jail, or, in some vacant location in Africa. Amongst ignorant people willing to believe something so gullible.

Parents usually do what they think are best for their children, but that doesn't mean they are the best for their children. If I believe it is best for my daughter to experience sex with someone within the family (already close) before starting on "others", I'd be viewed a sick, sick, person. Although my intentions are good.

Parents doesn't decide what's good for their kids, only their kids can do that (and kids usually are unaware of this). That's why we need something called CPS to make sure people don't do (substantial) harm to their children. You don't own your child, it ownes itself. So you should not act as if you own it. I'm not saying you indoctrinate your kids or something, kids often follow in their parents footsteps.

I don't want to discuss how you brought up your children, as it would be too specific and I know too little about it. You're the mother and you know a lot better than me if their upbringing was good or not (though mothers never say anything bad about their kids). If you've got loving, decent, honest kids you've done more than what's expected of you.

But as to exposing to beliefs - it really wouldn't make any difference if I took my children to KKK meetings, wouldn't it? It does have an effect on children, as children tend to do as their parents. Then again, you can't stop doing anything just so your child won't copy you. My point is only that taking me children to KKK meetings wouldn't be forcing either, although I would pass on something very dogmatic on their young innocent minds. So I won't take my children to political/religious meetings/assemblies at all, as I want my children beliefs be as original as possible.

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To fill a world with ... religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used. - Richard Dawkins

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned

MY CAPSLOCK KEY IS BROKEN LOL - Will be stumbled upon several times on the web.

Clash

Are you tired of going to them alone?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

I hope you also won't be exposing them to any philosophy or giving them any moral instruction then...

Personally I don't think I care whether my kid's (if I had any) beliefs were original. I'd want them to be "their own", of course, but I'd certainly try to give them all the help I could in building on the best (IMO) of what was already out there.
That would, admittedly, mean purposefully exposing them to what I thought were good influances and avoiding the really bad ones. All things in moderation, of course; no demanding that they believe such-and-such, but I'd certainly be willing to explain to them why I think it's the best view and encourage and help them to explore it.
And if I had a kid who, all by himself, came up with a really bad belief (that murder is good, or that some people were less than human, or whatever) you can bet that I'd actively work to convince them otherwise, originality be damned.

Did you mean to say by means of an incomplete sentence that because I believe in God that I'm ignorant and gullible?

We don't "own" human beings, however, it is the responsibility of a parent to raise their children by loving, teaching, and disciplining them. CPS is good when a child is being abused but taking them to church isn't abuse.

There are parents that teach the hatred of groups like the KKK and while I disagree 100% with it, it is the right of that parent.
Just how is not your children to political/religious meetings/assemblies going to make their beliefs as "original as possible"?

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Man, you guys are a tough crowd. Was it that bad?

I think they should put some external sign, but really I wouldn't blame them very roughly if they didn't. I also think it'd be difficult to put a sign whithout sounding discriminatory ("christian restaurant" sounds like they want only christian customers). If the sign doesn't sound discriminatory, it would probably look like they're trying to force their religion on others even more by putting christian signs on the street...

Anyway, it's not like you're forced to go into this establishment. It's not like you're forced to be a christian to enjoy the meal, the service or the music. And it's not like they're bashing other religions.

3 or 4 years ago, I would have been mad at them, though ^^.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

is this really that much of an issue? So the owner's a Christian and is public about it; is that such a big deal?

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

well personally it wasnt for me and my family we talked about it but it didnt offend us

i just brought it up for it was interesting and I thought it would make a good discussion

other than you , it appears it has

you bring up a good point if it was outside it would make it sound like a christian only establishment..........

He didn't refer to you as a dog. You did. Stop dodging the issue.


No. It's because I'd rather not listen to gospel or look at pictures of assorted Christians or related stuff while I eat. I'd rather eat in a secular environment. If I wanted a "Christian" environment, and a lot of Christains by the way are generally highly intolerant of other people's beliefs, I'd just go to the local church to be indoctrinated. Duh.


I doubt they will for too long, unless they are in the Bible belt (Bubba belt).

Wow! You support the right of a parent to teach the hatred of groups like the KKK to children ...

I must admit, I've never heard a racist argument phrased that way ... (sorry, but if you support the right of a parent to preach and promote what the KKK teaches, then you are in essence supporting racism in a way).

No, I don't support racism but I don't want the government telling me what I can and can't teach my child. I once saw a t.v. interview featuring a couple of young girls whose parents were skinheads. While I would have love to beat the crap out of the parents for teaching their kids such hate, they weren't breaking any laws so the government had no reason to step in. Once we start dictating what parents can teach in the privacy of their own homes, we can kiss the US goodbye.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Are you in essence arguing that parents should be allowed to teach their kids racist ideas, or racism if they like?

Do you not think that sort of contradicts a lot of things the US stands for, and is proud of? (equal rights for all irrespective of race, religion etc)

More importantly, where does one draw the line? If a parent brings his kid up to go on mass rampages like Cho recently did ... is that acceptable too?

My test would be to go into the establishment draped in the latest Dimmu Borgir "religion sickens me" shirt (JSR Direct - shop online for licensed merchandise, band apparel, rock tshirts, heavy metal clothing) and see how they relate to me.
If horribly, then they are true to their passion. Otherwise, they are whoring god. I expect to be mistreated. Otherwise, they are only doing what american business does: whore "something" to generate revenue. Which is the American way.

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