Polling data from a 2001 ARIS study, described below, indicate that:

-81% of American adults identify themselves with a specific religion
-76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. This decline is identical to that observed in Canada between 1981 and 2001.
-If this trend continues, by about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S.

-52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
-24.5% are Roman Catholic.
-1.3% are Jewish.
-0.5% are Muslim. (There is an enormous range of estimates of the number of Muslims in the U.S. The ARIS study in 2001 estimates "a national total population, including children, of up to 2.8 million." However, the Council on American-Islamic Relations states that "There are an estimated 7 million Muslims in America.")
-The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca -- a Neopagan religion that is sometimes referred to as Witchcraft. Numbers of adherents went from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001. Their numbers of adherents are doubling about every 30 months. Wiccans in Australia have a very similar growth pattern, from fewer than 2,000 in 1996 to 9,000 in 2001. In Canada, Wiccans and other Neopagans showed the greatest percentage growth of any faith group. They totaled 21,080 members in 2001, an increase of 281% from 1990. Such religions, however, have no accurate accounting system. For example, Wiccans and other Neopagans are almost completely decentralized; probably half are solitary practitioners who do not belong to a coven. Estimates of their total number in the U.S. vary over a 20:1 ratio.
-14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase -- almost a doubling -- from only 8% in 1990. There are more Americans who say they are not affiliated with any organized religion than there are Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans taken together.
-Agnostics, Atheists, Ethical Culturalists, Freethinkers, Humanists, or Secularists and the "none of the aboves" -- individuals who may believe in God and may follow the Golden Rule, but regard themselves as not being part of any organized religious group.
-The unaffiliated vary from a low of 3% in North Dakota to 25% in Washington State. The six states with the highest percentage of people saying they have no religion are all Western states, with the exception of Vermont at 22%.

So, using the 2001 number of 76.5% of Americans identifying themselves as Christians and 14.1% of Americans defining themselves as either atheist or agnostic (or, at least, indifferent), one would expect to see similar numbers mirrored in various subpopulations of America. Let's look at one such subpopulation, America's prison population.

The latest data I could find (from 1997) showed that 0.209% (156 of 74,731 prisoners) of America's prison population identifies itself as atheist. 86% of people in prison identify themselves as Christian. So, as a percentage, there are higher numbers of Christians in prison than one would suspect based on their overall number in the general population. Conversely, atheists make up a smaller proportion of the American prison population than one would suspect based upon their numbers in the general American populace.

Let's look at one other sub-population, those in America who have been divorced.

The Associated Press computed divorce statistics from data supplied by the U.S. Census Bureau and the National Center for Health. They showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the "Bible Belt." Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce. The divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average.

As a percentage breakdown, here's the divorce rate among various adherents:

-Jews 30%
-Born-again Christians 27%
-Other Christians 24%
-Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Looking at it another way, then, it would again appear that atheists & agnostics have higher levels of "morals" than Jews or Christians. Their numbers in prison (in terms of ratios) are smaller than their numbers in the general population, while their Christian counter-parts are higher. They get divorced less as well.

Looking at these two denominators, then, one would be led to believe that atheists & agnostics are morally superior to Christians.

And I'd like to add that I'm neither a Christian nor an atheist/agnostic. I have no dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out what the statistics show.


For more info, see Religious identification in the U.S. and http://pewforum.org/publications/reports/poll2002.pdf.

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

I'm not a Christian. Am I going to hell according to your religion? If so, why would I be banished to eternal fires if I'm not immoral?

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...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

According to the Bible, yes, you would go to hell if you're not a born-again believer. Why? Because Jesus said there's only one way into Heaven and that's through Him!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

And, if I believed in Jesus as the Son of God, that might be a problem...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

So you see what I mean now don't you?
Either you believe I go to hell because I'm a non-believer although you don't believe that is immoral, or you believe that I am immoral because I am a non-believer, or you do not believe everything your religion tells you to believe.

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...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

Excuse me, but JHC and I are trying to have an intelligent conversation here.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Allow me to play the devils advocate.
1. Laws do not equate to morals based on any one particular religion therefore your statistics are skewed. If laws reflected Christian tenets for example, we might well send non-believers to jail.

2. Religion is promoted in the prison system specifically, (particularly now under GWB's faith based initiatives), therefore, it may be reasonable to assume that profession of faith while in prison is higher than before entry into the system.

3. The statistics would have to be gained by the same method at the same time to make a reasonable comparison. Otherwise the margins are so slim as to render them useless.

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

I don't believe that you're immoral because you don't believe in God because I don't equate morals to Christianity. Do I believe you're wrong for not believing in God, of course, but I respect your choice and wouldn't dream of basing the other areas of your life around it.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

I'm pretty sure I understand your sentiment. I think, (and am thankful for it), that the sentiment is fairly common among Christians.

But that does in no way invalidate my point that the religion itself indicates that I am bound for hell for being a non-believer and if you disagree with that, then you disagree with the religion itself which makes my statement all the more true.

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

You've only looked at the prison data. What of the divorce data?

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

The Bible says you're bound for Hell, not because of morals but because you don't accept Jesus as Savior.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Now you are saying that it is not immoral to not accept Jesus as Savior yet it is worthy of eternal hellfire.

Are there any other non-sins I should be concerned about?

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

I looked at both and addressed only one. What can I say? I've posted the same statistics myself in a similar argument. I find it difficult to refute.

The only argument I can come up with is the one Mrs. M and I are pursuing currently. The answer must be that those who claim a particular religion do not consistently abide by the religious tenets yet still believe that overall, they are more moral than they would be without it.

The problem I think is in the authoritarian and totalitarian nature of religion. It seems necessary for a religion to comprise rules which are impossible for its followers to adhere to. This keeps them in the guilt cycle, constantly seeking and requiring forgiveness. Without this particular characteristic, who would remain faithful? None. There would be no stick and without a stick, everyone would choose to be atheist or agnostic.

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

I've always found it interesting that when reading the Bible there are far more descriptions of hell than of heaven.

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn