I hope i am not making you angry, I would be willing to discuss further what the specific issues are.

I only accept them because I have worked very hard to understand them. Believe me it's not "without question." Thats not even healthy. In a way you are right, to human reason it doesn't make sense in some ways, but to quote Corinthians "the wisdom of God is foolishness to men."

Your brothers seem like the kind of Christians who make me mad.

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

Perhaps Mare might try using a Victor Hugo quote the next time religion comes up at a family gathering:

"When you tell me that your Deity made you in his own image, I reply that he must have been very ugly."

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

No, you don't make me angry, but some of the sound bytes from the Bible are pretty trite. Your quote from Corinthians could be used to cover absolutely ANY kind of irrational behavior. We've been over most of it at one time or another, God is painted to be a monster in the Bible, and a schizophrenic one at that. You manage to reconcile the Old Testament God with the Jesus despite the blatant contradictions in their teachings. The Old Testament God was not turning the other cheek for anybody, He was a real kick ass and take names kind of guy who smeared feces in the faces of the people who annoyed Him. Too sick for me, all the rape, murder, genocide, mutilation, and always the chant of fear God, fear God, fear God.

I'm going to stick with the two commandments Jesus said were the most important, and I'll practice Jesus' good teachings as best I can, but the rest of the Bible... well, it's Adios, Tonto. I have to admit, Non, that I don't want anyone to be able to convince me that rape is alright and that women can be considered spoils of war. I'm almost 60 and nothing in my life nor in the relationship that I have with my Creator has ever made me consider for a single second that God did all that sick stuff in the Bible or that He will once again slaughter His children. It's unbelievable--and here's the breaker, Non, if it was all true, I wouldn't want to spend 5 seconds with a monster like that, let alone all of Eternity.

Yeah, me too.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

It would be good to use a quote like that with my brothers, but, being good Christians, they never, EVER allow me into their homes or come to a place where I will be. One brother goes so far as forcing my parents to take my PICTURE down when he brings his family to visit them. I'm sure Jesus admires them for their steadfastness. I guess I could email it, but I've got one brother's email blocked because of the abusive "stuff" he was always sending and the other one and I don't talk much.

Great quote though, I saved it in my Humor Humidor, thanks.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Wow Mare, I'm sorry your brothers are so fucked-up. It's very obvious the problem is with them, not you. I'm surprised your parents would go so far as to take down your picture just because your mentally-incompetent brother is coming for a visit.

I wonder what your brothers think about the company Jesus keeps in the Gospels?

Another Hugo quote for you: "God made himself man: granted. The Devil made himself woman."

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

I've got to say the description you give of how your brothers treat you make me very sad. I think they are really missing out on a relationship with someone very special. I believe they will be judged according to the same standards of which they judge others.

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Wow. I'm so sorry, Mare. That's some seriously messed up stuff.

Sorry Mare. There is nothing to explain their actions.

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

My parents take down the picture because if they don't they will never get to see their grandkids. That's the deal my brother gave them--picture up, no visits from the kids. It makes me wonder what he told his kids about the Uncle who disappeared.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Thank you, Crystal. I miss both of them, neither one has had the chance to get to know the real "me", all they've ever known was the me pretending to be a man. It's only been a few years, maybe they'll come around.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Both you and Dilettante give me hope as you seem to be rational, compassionate people even though you share the same "Christian" label as my brothers. I think both of them are afraid, neither one has the internal compass (we've discussed it) and both of them rely on their religion to tell them what to do. I think they're afraid to think for themselves or to interpet their dogma beyond what the Preacher tells them.

Though I often feel like kicking each of them, the fact is that I would welcome them back into my life without question if they could find it in their hearts to not hate/fear/condemn me.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

I've had blood relatives on whom I've had to turn my back (I'm from Missouri; racism is endemic in many quarters of our fair state, and I've no time for it). I've close friends that I consider closer than family.

Family is what you make of it. Not what the blood coursing through your veins tells you it should be.

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

Well said. I have a whole slew of friends that will always be there for me. I can't say that about my brother. Flesh is flesh, but love is love.

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Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.
--Tool, The Grudge