That is where our agreement ends...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

On that note, I think poverty can be helped by expanding public works and public industry. Everyone is useful for something; if someone refuses a guaranteed state job, then perhaps they deserve to be poor.

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This plan makes sense on a psychological basis. These individuals have learned that their decisions really don't impact their existence one way or the other (remember, perception is reality). If this situation changes, and making good decisions results in significant rewards, it's not unreasonable to expect behavior changes. It's basic Skinner.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

The problem is when the rewards stop.

I think it's dangerous to assume that we can take a Pavlov-type approach to this and cure society's ills...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

But do the rewards stop? The source of the rewards shift, but since you are one who claims that all that's needed is hard work and good decisions, the rewards wouldn't stop, right?

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Provided the experiment works.

They're looking at paying someone $300.00 for doing well on a test in school. What happens when the person is no longer in school? That "reward" stops. Now, the idea behind this is that the person will learn that performing well will reap a benefit. Unfortunately, the only benefit that person has known has been cash.

If someone goes to the doctor every six months, they get paid. Well, for what duration of time should they be paid to go to the doctor? Forever? If you take a ten year old kid, well, that's $400.00 per year. If the person live to age 70, that's $24,000.00. Should anyone collect that amount for going to the doctor their whole life? I don't think so.

Like I said, I couldn't give a fuck if private individuals want to piss their money away on something like this. The downside, though, will be when the private funds run out, and then people expecting the government to step up and continue it.

That's when the problems will start...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

My wife teaches in the inner city. For about 10 years, the elementary school where she teaches has given gift cards to kids for good attendance & good grades. Many kids who were in the program early on have gone on to finish high school. Some have even finished college. Guess what? This kids who went through this school (where the experimental program was started) have the highest graduation rate in the entire city. They have the lowest delinquency rate. They have the lowest teenage pregnancy rate. The program was started (and expanded) using tax money. The end result is better educated kids who get in less trouble & don't wind up on welfare with a slew of fatherless babies. Seems cheaper to spend money on rewards than on welfare & the criminal justice system, doncha think?

If rewards work, why not try them?

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

In fairness, I think we'd all do well to know the intricacies of the program before getting into too crazy a debate about it. I've got no problem with private funds being used, but I think there would have to be some ridiculous oversight of such a program if public money was used.

Right off the bat, I would want to know how long the payments go on for, and who qualifies.

But that would be just the start of my concerns...

That's fair. I don't think there's enough information here to really know. If there have been successes in other countries, IMHO it's worth at least examining.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I suppose you are angry about every other penny spent on education too? Maybe this program does more for education than the average dollar spent on education.

If you "suppose" that, then you should probably not make assumptions, because you don't seem to be very good at it.

This program deals with far more than education. If someone goes to the doctor, they get paid $200.00.

Personally, I go to the doctor because I want to be healthy. I would hope that would be the driving force for anyone, poor or not. Furthermore, why should this person get $200.00 for going to the doctor and not that person?

Why does Steve have such a bitter hatred of what people do with their own private funds?

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

There is an unfortunate attitude prevalent in this culture that others are getting things we aren't--and they don't deserve whatever it is that they are getting. This is amply demonstrated in the anger expressed at handicapped parking places. Again and again, people rant and rave about HOW COME THEY GET THE GOOD SPOTS? People go so far as to steal or forge the handicapped tags to hang in their cars.

I don't really understand the "I HAD TO DO IT THE HARD WAY, SO YOU DO TOO" mentality either, shoot, I hope nobody ever has to go through the stuff I have, I wouldn't wish transsexuality on my worst enemy. I realize that's kind of a specialized case, but the attitude carries over.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Ajax, reading really is fundamental.

This is from post #23: I've got no problem with private funds being used.

How in the fuck do you get "bitter hatred" from that?

Please don't try to surmise what I think; you fuck it up when you do.

It's pretty obvious that my concern starts if and when tax dollars start going to this program. I've been pretty clear that I don't care what's done with private funds.

Is that, somehow, unclear?