Knowledge begets responsibility which begets guilt

Guilt is both a curse and a salvation. I conclude that guilt is perhaps one of the few internal mechanisms that can prevent human self-destruction.

Rational analysis and recognition of self preservation can drive us to correcting problems that have immediate and visible impact on our life but it is this internal friction we call guilt upon which we must depend for avoiding long term consequences resulting from our behavior.

Guilt is difficult to analyze because it is ‘dumb’. It is a feeling of being blocked and frustrated without knowing why we feel that way. This develops when embraced by powerlessness while clutched by the unknown. Guilt is a bind of life.

A feeling of guilt emanates from our peculiar ability to apprehend life’s totality but unable to move in relation to it. “This real guilt partly explains willing subordinacy to his culture: after all, the world of men is even more dazzling and miraculous in its richness than the awesomeness of nature. Also, subordinacy comes naturally from man’s basic experience of being nourished and cared for; it is a logical response to social altruism.”—Ernest Becker.

Stewardship-- the conducting, supervising, or managing of something... the careful and responsible management of something entrusted to one's care...

Stewardship is a word used often in the Bible and was at one time used often in England. It was used in England because the youth of the landed aristocracy was taught that they were responsible for the care of the family properties in such a way that they passed on to the next generation an inheritance equal to but more appropriately larger than that received. Each generation was not the owner but was the steward for the family estates. Any individual who squandered the inheritance was a traitor to the family.

I am inclined to think that each human generation must consider itself as the steward of the earth and therefore must make available to the succeeding generations an inheritance undiminished to that received.

In this context what does "careful and responsible management" mean? I would say that there are two things that must be begun to make the whole process feasible. The first is that the public must be convinced that it is a responsible caretaker and not an owner and secondly the public must be provided with an acceptable standard whereby it can judge how each major issue affects the accomplishment of the overall task. This is an ongoing forever responsibility for every nation but for the purpose of discussion I am going to speak about it as localized to the US.

Selfishness and greed are fundamental components of human nature. How does a nation cause its people to temper this nature when the payoff goes not to the generation presently in charge but to generations yet to come in the very distant future? Generations too far removed to be encompassed by the evolved biological impulse to care for ones kin.

How is it possible to cause a man or woman to have the same concern for a generation five times removed as that man or woman has for their own progeny?

I suspect it is not possible, but it does seem to me to be necessary to accomplish the task of stewardship.

Guilt may be our only hope for human acceptance of the responsibility of stewardship.

Guilt may be our only hope... for... 'stewardship'?

Your post is very Biblical - the phraseology (some Hebrew guy begets some other Hebrew guy who begets some other Hebrew guy), the quixotic appeals, and the meandering prose.

But, what is your point, exactly? It seems to be a radical treatise on why humankind should be preoccupied, overwhelmingly, with reproduction, and providing the 'lubrication' for said reproduction.

But, to what end, and for what purpose? You describe how 'guilt' can be used to get us to worry about subsequent generations. But, why should we do this? What's the point?

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Humans can be motivated to action by reason if the problem is immediate and the action might solve the problem. Humans cannot be motivated by reason to solve problems that are long range and require immediate sacrifice.

coberst, you do realize that your posts are very difficult to read ? You don't make any effort at making structured posts with a clear subject. You won't get any discussion if you keep posting that way. Make sure you write not for yourself, but in order to be understood by others.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

I choose to write about ideas that most readers are unfamiliar with. I do this because I think that these ideas are very important.

To write about these ideas in a way that will take the reader by the hand and slowly explain each step would require more material than anyone would allow or would read.

My goal is to supply enough information that will hopefully excite the curiosity of the reader sufficiently that the reader will seek out other sources such as a book and make a complete discovery of the importance of the idea.

If the reader is never challenged they will never move beyond what their teachers served up to them in school.

Why not?
If my "long range" you're talking about having "the same concern for a generation five times removed as that man or woman has for their own progeny" then I'd say that some sort of reason is going to be a necessary component because, as you indicated, instinct doesn't really give people much concern for distant generations.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that reason, in some form, is a tremendous motivator. Personally, I feel concern for people close to me, but as the person under consideration grows more distant (either culturally, geographically, or temporally) that feeling decreases.
However, thinking rationally, I recognize that by the measures of value I claim to subscribe to, people distant from me have the same value as those closer to me. Thus, reason encourages me to have concern for their well being as well.

I am quite curious about where this topic is supposed to be going? Biblically i would say the concept of stewardship comes not from guilt, but from gratitude for God creating us. Guilt has very little to do with the situation because we are freed from guilt by faith.

Now of course I am speaking Biblically. If that is not where the argument lies ignore my post.

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

Knowledge begets responsibility which begets guilt. Ignorance leads to bliss. But ignorance denies our humanity.

The questions I would like to ask everyone are:

1) Do you agree that the acceptance of stewardship responsibility for this planet is vitally important?
2) Do you think that this human characteristic of guilt can be important for stewardship to happen?
3) Do you have a different idea whereby this stewardship might develop?
4) Do you give a damn?

Vitally important for what, precisely?

Actually, I'd say just the opposite. Something akin to a "stewardship" mentality, at the very least a sense of legitimate responsibility to someone, must exist before on can feel guilt.

That would require a more precise definition of what "stewardship" means here. Stewards of what? Stewards on behalf of who?

About what? This has all been very vague.

Indeed.

Coberst has been posting this kind of stuff for a long time at various other forums. I argued one of them with him and that suggested to me that I ought not to bother.

coberst,

1. Do you agree that acceptance of normative dialogue requires that you at least try to make some sense.

2. Do you understand that those who may disagree with your views are not purposely trying to hurt your feelings.

3. Do you think anyone cares if I give a damn or not?

I would argue that greed and self interest are the only mechanisims that can prevent human self-destruction.

People aren't going to change their lifestyle because they feel guilty - but they'll sure as hell do it if there's something in it for them.

Ironically, the same greed and self interest that can "save" humanity are also leading inexorably to our downfall.

Greed is both a curse and a salvation.