I'm calling out the falsity of the second proposition here.

"The doctrine or belief that there is no God" is how both numerous dictionaries and I define atheism. Since such a position is an idea that has no proof, it most definitely falls under the set of 'beliefs' previously defined in the first proposition.

I really do not care and take no offense from this but I do hope people keep this in mind when they claim that there is a attack on Christianity. I would also like to point out that atheist tend to not go around trying to recruit and do not send missions into other nations to win people over. That all I care to add. Thanks.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

What do you think of a hypothetical "full faith and credit" of religions in a federal UN Constitution?

If anyone can claim holiness and morality in their religious practice, they should be able to practice their religion freely.

In the US, we have a First Amendment and a "full faith and credit" clause in our secular constitution.

From a Ninth Amendment perspective, religious practice can be considered a private property right and enforcible by private religious authorities not the federal government.

Which dictionaries ? The OED doesn't. It's reported as the absence of belief, which is exactly what the 2nd proposition says.

The primary reason no S. American cardinal will become pope in the near future is Vatican policy seeming reverting versus society. Catholicism is the dominant religion from Mexico south and any human being promoting birth control in that sea of poverty would be shunned by Vatican power wielders.

I think anyone who heads a church has a lot of nerve accusing atheists of "injustices and cruelty" when much more injustice and cruelty is and has been carried out in the name of religion than of atheism. I think maybe if benedict is really concerned about injustice and cruelty he'll apologize for the past actions of his own church, launch a major effort to rid the church of pedophiles, and help curb the christian extremists who promote homophobia.

And if people are too cynical and hopeless because they lack religion then maybe the pope should accept some blame for allowing his church to lose touch with the people to begin with. If the sheep get lost that's the shepherd's fault.

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A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

I think the good Pope is scapegoating to cover the failure of Christianity. In this country I hear Christians blaming the lack of good moral values on the existence of gay people. Atheists--like gays--have represented a small percentage of the population all down through history. Whereas Christians have been the vast majority in a large number of countries for centuries--and what have they accomplished? They have managed to split into more than one new sect per year for the last 2000years (all of these sects proclaims themselves as the holders of God's Truth), the list of the monstrous things that they have done in the name of their god is very, very long, and I know of no country where they have brought peace through the teachings of Jesus, but they brought the peace of death to the indigenous peoples everywhere they went.

Individually I think Christianity has done a lot of good, but collectively I think it has been a scourge on the face of the Earth.

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The apocalypse is coming... we're gonna need more ammo.

Just an overall note, let us remember that the Pope is human, which means he is bound to make mistakes (despite whatever old doctrine of infallibility they might bring up). Let us also remember that the Church is a human institution, it is also bound to make mistakes. Despite all this, I cannot abandon the Church "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, and the forgiveness of sins..." Notice how the "communion of saints" is followed closely by "the forgiveness sins" in the Apostle's creed. Some wisdom from the early church fathers I think.

What is this about??

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

Don't have an Oxford on me, so you might be right about that. I was using Mirriam-Webster, as well as miscellaneous online conventional and philosophy-oriented dictionaries.

I suppose this is just another disappointing semantic problem, although I prefer atheism defined in the manner I previously stated since it would refer to something other than agnosticism (unless you are defining that differently from me as well). If we make those two terms synonymous, we have to toy with those ridiculous 'hard' and 'soft' atheisms that I've seen thrown around to get at both meanings. Oh well.

Hope is at best useless, and at worst a cause for inaction.

He speaks as if "atheists" are an organized group of like minded people responsible for injustice and cruelty? What the hell is he talking about... All institutionalized and historical acts of cruelty in the world are carried out by ideologues, religious or otherwise. "Atheists" are not an organized group of people that can be labeled responsible for any cruelty or injustices at all in the world. Not to say that "atheists" can't be as inhumane and cruel as religious or other ideological folk, the difference is that it is always the person as an individual that is responsible in an isolated incident for such acts. Whereas religious/ideological cruelty and injustices are always institutional and widespread, carried out by the deluded masses.

Im not a plumber. Why is there not a special word amongst plumbers for people who are not plumbers. The word "atheist" is a religious word. Im simply not a religious person. I don't need a word to label me as such. Not religious is sufficient. I don't belong to a group of people who are not religious and we don't have meetings and we don't collectively engage in cruelty to others.

This pope is just being ridiculous and nonsensical. Very low-brow stuff, which is typical from the catholic church.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

There is no "falsity". WOI's use of propositional logic was sound.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Discussing religion with co-workers in a staff having mixed beliefs or a lack of is seldom a road to professional success.

I am sorry that you view hope as useless. I have hope. I reject consistent cynicism.

I can't say if my lack of general cynicism is due to being brought up as a RC (I am fallen away) or if it is due to the way I was raised by my family and the friends I choose. There are many who view the presence of more cynicism as due to increased secularism. I don't know if that is the case or not. I would like to hear arguments about both views.

Whether the Church is low-brow or not is irrelevant, IMO. It is not the source that concerns me, rather the view.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

What good is hope? I mean if you have action, it is just harmless to hope for your desired outcome, as long as their is action. But hope in the religious sense has never produced anything of note.

I don't know if cynicism is a result of secularism. It seems to me secualrism is on of the few positive development of civilization.

I will agree that cynicism is not good. Im just not sure its exclusive to the secular world, as much as it is attributable to an increasing disillusionment with our culture and where it is taking us. Its hard not to be cynical when we live in world so full of contradictions. I.e., we know that oil consumption harms us and we know we have to dramatically curb our use of fossil fuels, yet at the same time we consistently increase our use of fossil fuels whenever we get the chance. And at the same time we "hope" for a better future, but we don't act in accordance with this "hope".

Christmas is the season of cynicism. God bless us all.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Hope works for me. If I had none, I wouldn't do what I do for a living.

Secularism is definitely good for civilization, IMO. Sometimes secularism goes further and borders on infringement in freedom of religion.

There are plenty of religious groups who cry gloom and doom, even rapture in an Apocalypse, so cynicism is certainly not unique to agnostics or atheism, nor can it be tied too strongly to secularism.

Christmas is also the season of SAD (seasonal affective disorder). Merry Christmas.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition