In many ways I have the luxury of not thinking about this, because it was written out of the Irish Constitution, but it's still a serious issue. On the one hand, the thought of the DP makes me feel physically ill. On the other hand, why should my squeamishness dictate the law? While I'm concerned about the issues of prisoner rights and cruel and unusual punishments, there is also the issue of why the prisoner's rights should come before those of their victim's. I'd like to know what people think, especially those from places which actually have the DP.

When dealing with the penalty phase of criminal proceedings involving a potential DP, what are the rights of the victim and how do they apply?

In the USA, the victim is dead, since the Supreme Court just decided that the DP can only apply in murder cases. Do deceased people have rights? And, if so, how should they apply in the penalty phase and why?

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All things serve The Beam

But why is there more concern for the rights of a murderer (assuming that the person is guilty - I know there are always problems in that regard) than for the person they killed?

I used to be for it. I am against it now for three reasons:

As mistakes can and do occur in our justice system, this penalty is too final. It cannot be reversed, obviously.

Also, with the mandatory appeals (good idea, too) it is often more of a financial strain on our system than a life penalty.

And my third reason is more of a punative nature. Life behind bars with no possibility of parole is often more of a unpleasant prospect than having it over with.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

The person who was killed technically doesn't have any more rights. The only person in question who does is the convicted party.

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All things serve The Beam

Obviously everyone has their opinion on this and its certainly as valid as mine,

but...

NO penalty can be reversed. Time behind bars is time lost. Money out your pocket is money you had no access to.

Non-capital offenses have appeals too. Is it a money thing ? Its expensive either way. You would need the Soviet style justice system to address that whcih I don't htink anyone wants.

If we're looking for unpleasant does that not get into the cruel thing ? Its supposed to be justice. Right ?

But for me, yes to capital punishment with the customary due diligence. I would like to see the "speedy" part of the COnstitutional guarantee reinstituted. No reason for this process to take so much as a year. Its the speedy part that provides the deterrance.

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

I'm for it - with qualifications. I think it is too liberally applied and have concerns about the race issues - ie there are far more black men on Death Row than white. Why?

I also think we should take into account the capacity of the individual to understand their actions and the consequences thereof. There are quite a few cases where the mental competency of those convicted means that they may not have been capable of assisting in their defence, etc. so I have concerns about that.

I do believe that, where the evidence is indisputable, and that due process is followed, there are some people whose crime is sufficient that they should forfeit their right to life for those crimes. In particular, violent crimes against children and the most vunerable, and for the murder of law enforcement - because they put themselves in harms way for us and I think we owe it to them to treat those who murder such people with the harshest sentences. For many though, I think life without parole is sufficient. Unlike the EU, where 'life' appears to mean about 10 years - give or take. That is ridiculously light!

What we should consider is that the 'victims' of crime are not just the person murdered but their families and friends who suffer. They have rights too.

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"On my signal, unleash hell."

sure about that ? last I heard the opposite was true.


The victim is still dead irrespective of the killer's mental state. If we are looking to protect society then that sort of person is a greater risk BECAUSE of this.


Life without parole is the stroke of a pen from being whatever duration the government wants to change it to. I'd hate to think the prison budget drives my protection from killers.


amen to that.

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

I'm very strongly against it, but I also recognize that it is allowed via the Constitution.

Interesting tidbit in the most recent Scientific American - the best predictor of a death sentence is education level, not race, sex, or crime.


The fact that there are errors and that innocents are killed by the state also troubles me to no end.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

A statistic I hear again and again is that black men make up 6% of the population in the US but commit 54% of the nation's murders. If that's true then it definitely explains why there are more black men on death row than white.

Not only do I see zero evidence as to why, exactly, what you claim might be true, but the Chinese have taken this to a level of perfection where the penalty is sometimes applied on the same day.

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All things serve The Beam

I voted for against. Cost-wise it doesn't seem to make much of a difference to lifelong improsonment, and I don't believe that much in harsher punishments scaring others away from crime. There are no statistics to back that up. Longer/tougher punishments are good to keep convicted criminals from the street longer, but they don't seem to prevent others from committing crimes.

And btw California girl, in the Dutch justice system, and most other European systems too, lifelong imprisonment really means lifelong. Nobody in the Netherlands convicted to lifelong has ever been released. Another myth debunked.

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Terrornoia: how the propa-ugandists used the omni-territorialization of terror for the fundamen-talismanization of criminal law in a multi-cultus-ritualistic society

Perfect instance here locally. VERY grusome multiple murder had the whole area worked up (as well they should have been). Guy was found, evidence irrefutable, murderer was dead in 16 months, close enough for people to remember the crime and the outrage and appreciate the justice.

If 20 years go by will anyone remember ?

Would executing Charles Manson have the same impact if it hapened today as opposed to it happening back then ?

Speedy was VERY important, thats why it got put into the COnstitution.

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

fixed

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

I'm sorry. That's not proof. That's anecdotally interesting, perhaps, but it does nothing to forward your case.Check out crime and execution statistics in 18th century England. They hung everyone. Pickpockets.Who knows. Objective data says it would have made zero difference.No.

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All things serve The Beam