This is the biggest crock about this latest financial crisis. The Republicans, in 1994 mind you, came out with a new type of politics. Run essentially local pols (House Reps) in a national manner and Bloc vote once you're in. They, essentially, founded the modern version of partisanship. This enabled them to catch a Congressional majority which they then used to first shut down the govt when they didn't get their way and then utterly frustrate the most effective President since Roosevelt over something so utterly ridiculous and picayune as to make us the laughingstock of the world

After that, when their party used a judicial trick to catch the Presidency too, they ran roughshod over the opposition and the country. Their complacency allowed the first and worst attack on our soil in 150 years and instead of resigning in shame they used the death of our innocents Reichstag style to erode our rights and start a completely unnecessary, useless and financially ruinous war, eventually using that to create Kleptocracy USA.

And now, what do we hear when the chickens come back to Capistrano? "..well...uh...hey...Democrats voted for some of this too. We all do it, let's not be partisan."

Bullshit, the Republicans only let the Dems stick around, apparently, so we could share the blame when their thievery finally blew up in all our faces. Screw that, they were in charge and now they're to goddam blame. Let's tell the truth for once and be partisan as shit. We need a new opposition party in the USA and Republicans should become like Prohibitionists and Flat Earthers, (most of whom are Republicans anyway) a footnote to history and a joke.

Because at the end of the partisan conversation, the three hundred posts this will garnish will amount to "you suck, no you suck."

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There is no secret ingredient.

OK mebbe, (and I'm sorry if that happens but I think this a legitimate topic, not a troll, and can't we discuss such in a civilised, if spirited, manner?) but the world is not a politics board, though we do discuss the world on it. OUR not being partisan is largely because this is where the Prohibitionists and Flat Earthers come (and are welcomed, often praised, and sometimes become moderators). CONGRESS not being partisan, as we (and they) frequently urge, seems a little silly to me, and pretty much just a way to duck responsibility too.

But everything, and every moment, adding up to the voting of the bailout aside... it looks a lot like the members of Congress up for reelection voted how the people wanted them to vote. Maybe, just maybe, for the first time in a long time, a politician listened to his employer. Where some blame Pelosi, and others blame the stupidity of blaming Pelosi; where some blame Democrats for not coming together, others for Republicans not coming together; whatever. Our government has failed us. And the people feel it. Maybe they don't understand how, or why, or what it will take to fix this or if it can be fixed. Even the most intelligent answers on this board are something like "I don't know, but this isn't it." The rest, all the bickering, is just bullshit.

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There is no secret ingredient.

Yes..........all of that terrible activity resulted in lower taxes for the consumer, a strong economy, and a budget surplus that Democrats could crow about for ten years, crow about how their great President William Jefferson Clinton worked miracles even though he was just along for the ride.

The idea that you should not drop the partisanship even in national emergencies is insanity.

You would rather fight then do something constructive?

Seems like the fight is more important to you then a solution is.

Talk about self-destructive behavior..........
It's like rats fighting over who will look blameless on the Titanic. This partisanship is the number one problem in Washington.

Nancy Pelosi, it was revealed, called several Democrats that are up for re-election and told them that they should vote against the bailout bill because their voters don't want it.

Over 90 did vote against it. Then Pelosi goes on the floor and infuriates the Republicans with her partisan rant on purpose causing the vote to go against the bill.

And why would she do something so stupid?

Answer: Ohio opens early voting the following day. A new law allows people in Ohio to register and vote early absentee on Sept. 30.

On Sept. 29 the failure of the bill caused the DOW to tank to the tune of 778 points losing more in one single day then any time in our history.

So all of this has just been an attempt to blame the Republicans for this mess and hopefully this dirty political maneuver will swing Ohio in the Democrats direction.

Despicable. Utterly Despicable.

Until these partisan tricks stop and stop immediately there is going to be hell to pay.

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

You should try not to be partisan because you lose credibility. It seems rather obvious to me.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I'm partisan to the truth and to doing the right thing.

When you're that kind of partisan, dug in types on both extremes lash out at you for whatever stand you take on anything, particularly the righties, who make an enemy out of you, but both extremes are bad at not listening.

I'm glad the bailout failed. I just wish the righties had taken their principled stance public and pushed for what they wanted instead of acting like passive-aggressive teenaged girlie girls with hurt feelings.

For those who blame Clinton, it's a red herring. Yeah, he signed that bill where Phil Gramm added the deregulation thing, but Bill Clinton was a policy wonk who kept his eye on the ball and had plenty of smart people looking after things. Had there been no term limits and let's say he'd have won two more terms, there's absolutely no way that the country would be in the ditch the way it is now. Rules and regulations, or no regulations, they all matter, but it also matters who you have in gov't and if they're actually smart enough to know what they're doing, and correct things when there are mistakes. Secretary Paulson was a Republican President's pick, and only 12 months ago the guy was saying everything is strong, and he didn't see it coming. That makes him a bad pick, since Ron Paul had been talking about this for the last few years.

But for the partisan extremists in America, it's so sickening to watch people not even listen to reason, let alone each other. Nancy Pelosi said truthful things that were very ill-timed and the House Republicans who voted against it because of her are cry-babies. Either that, or her speech made them see the light about how much they can't stand Bush, and then remembered that they didn't want to help him out anymore.

the most effective president since Roosevelt?...dude you had me there, I had to pick myself up off the floor.....


the republicans were in charge? Uhm well they have not had congress for 2 years...

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I'm ideological, not partisan. Liberalism is good. Democrats tend to be more liberal than Republicans and therefore better. However, that is not an absolute. There are plenty of exceptions. As for the current financial mess, members of both parties jumped into deregulation with grins on their faces and their hands over their eyes. Deregulation is a (very bad) conservative idea, but not exclusively a Republican one.

As a matter of fact, "the most effective president since Roosevelt" () has to shoulder a fair share of the blame.

I think that you are confusing outcome with causality. it might be true that the only way to achieve the economic outcome that we got was to have a Republican Congress with a Democratic President. However, that does not mean that the only way to achieve a Republican Congress was to follow the GOPAC approach outlined by Gingrich. Problem is, since Republicans won in the election cycle, people adopted the in-you-face partisan politics promoted by Gengrich. It is possible, that we could have had the same economic outcome without the bullshit politics.

Couple of details wrong here. First, Nancy didn't tell them how to vote, she simply "released" them so that they would not have to jeopardize their election for this bill. She thought that this was OK because the Republicans were supposed to provide half the votes to pass the bill to show that it had bipartisan support.
Second is kind of obvious. Her rant was before the vote. How would a rant after the vote affect the vote?

No, the Republicans said that they would deliver half the votes for the bill. They didn't say that they votes were contingent on no one saying anything that the Republicans might find hurtful in the depate before the vote. I wonder if any of the Republicans said anything "hurtful" to the Democrats. I'm sure they didn't because the Republicans were prepared to vote for the bill in a non-partisan way. Oh, wait, no they weren't.

Interesting way to connect the dots. I wonder how you would do with a Rorschach test?

It would be good if you occasionally said “I think” or “it might be” in your post. When you don’t people might start thinking that you don’t have any doubt about your unsubstantiated claims. When people imagine things and then start thinking those things are real, it isn’t healthy.

The kind of activity that you call bullshit politics was by no stretch of the imagination to the point that the Democrats are conducting today. If it was the media sure hid it because I wasn't aware of it.

Sorry, her rant was before the vote. Michelle Malkin » Nancy Pelosi’s bailout attack speech on the House floor; Update: Pence statement added

Note the time she when she spoke: 12:21pm ET.

The vote was right after her speech.The House Votes Down The ‘Bailout’ Bill | Sweetness & Light

Note the time of the vote: 1:56pm ET.



I guess with the technology today, unfortunately for you, you're fib can be exposed, huh?

Another thing, if the bill was important enough that it needed to be passed she would have been twisting their arms to vote yes, not telling them that they could vote any way they choose. This is similar to her statement a couple of months ago to Democrats up for election that they could claim they supported drilling because most of the voters want us to drill even if they didn't really support drilling. This is a pattern that she has established, so don't attempt to provide cover for her because this wasn't the first time she has done this.

So you believe them? Just like you must have believed them when they said they had a deal last week when they didn't. Don't be gullible.


It's crystal clear what the events on Monday was about. Ohio.

Obama has been busing homeless people to the polls getting them registered and voting because the new law allows them to do it. There is no way to check the registrations and compare the address provided on the registration form with the municiple records. Bush took Ohio by just over 100,000 votes in 2004. It wouldn't take much to reverse it if new voters helped to the polls by Obama and angry voters blaming the failure of the bailout on Republicans both converged on the polls the day after the bailout failed.

They say the last thing politicians want is a voter who has a bone to pick against them on election day. If you had to pay your taxes on the day that you vote I think a ton of the politicians in Washington would be looking for new jobs.

If you can't see this then please.....feel free to go on living in fantasyland.

The American Spectator

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/bu...em&oref=slogin

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

I can't really tell how accurate your portrayal of partisanship is, (1) because you give no evidence, (2) because you're a partisan, and (3) because you're railing against the party you dislike. Curiously, you seem to deride the Republicans for coming up with this sort of partisanship, but then embrace it.

Anyway, partisanship in itself isn't all that bad. It's when a partisan with no critical thinking ability or care for the truth or desire for sound public policy becomes so loud that similar opposition partisans get louder too and soon "public dialogue" becomes nothing but pundits and blame-games.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

Well that is where we are today.

You would think that in a real emergency people would come together as one and do the right thing....like after 9/11....but this isn't a real emergency. It is an October Surprise sprung in September.

Yes, we're in trouble financially but all it would take is for a string of positive news reports and you would not believe the difference it would make.

If the Dems announced that drilling was going to begin today, that taxes are going to go down for businesses, that the fighting in Washington is over with, and the low-life MF assholes that pulled this stunt at Fanny Mae were going to jail.........then everything would change overnight.

I would love to see Barney Fwank and others do the purp-walk just once.

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

I think it is easy to be "bi-paritisan" - all you have to do is flush your own principles down the toilet and agree to go along with the other side. It is infinitely more difficult to stand by and defend your principles regardless of the political fallout. Very few politicians have the intenstinal fortitude to do it.

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008