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Ending this almost 300 year old war between science and religion. Part 2
Part 2
This set the stage for Martin Luther, a German Augustinian monk, who after becoming offended by the practice of selling indulgences (the proceeds went toward the building of St. Pete's in Rome) which guaranteed the remittance of sins for transgressions in this life), on October 21, 1517, nailed to the church door in Latin 95 theses setting out his positive views on salvation. A few things came together to make this moment of heresy very different than others. German politics, the printing press, the general dissatisfaction with papal authority and a well grounded anti-cleric mood by many throughout Europe, and a truly individualistic expression of salvation that cut at the root of the Church's authority. Luther believed in presenting "God as a forgiving God, not a punitive one." His original theses were not theological in nature, but soon his arguments went beyond the grounds of reform in practice and began question papal authority and Church doctrine directly. He "preached that men were justified -- that is set aside for salvation -- not by observance of the sacraments only ('works,' as this was called), but by faith. This was, clearly, an intensely individualist position. It struck at the root of traditional teaching which saw no salvation possible outside the Church." [My emphasis] 10 After nailing his 95 theses to the church door, his words were translated into German and circulated everywhere in Germany. Frederick of Saxony, the ruler of Luther's state refused to surrender him (which saved his life). Luther's order abandoned him, his university did not. He was excommunicated in 1520. Luther burned the papal bull of excommunication along with books of canon law. He refused to retract his views before the imperial Diet and in 1521 Charles V placed him under the Imperial Ban. Luther was kidnapped for his protection by a sympathetic prince. Germany was on the verge of civil war, Europe would never be the same and the supremacy of the Church fell. By 1555, Germany was divided between Protestant and Catholic states. Politics and religion had been essentially of the same one fused view ("projected onto the same plane"), but now they began to differentiate from one another. They were still very much entangled, but now it was an entanglement of support or rejection rather than a confusion between the two. It was the beginning of further differentiations. But it must be noted that this differentiation was only partial and made possible through the rise of a new mythic worldview, Protestantism. The Protestant Reformation undercut the authority of the Roman Catholic Church and it did so by presenting a "clearly individualist" (rational) answer to salvation and rested this upon a much more personal (rationalistic) interpretation of the Bible, against the authority of the Church's ideal of 'works' and the authorized interpretations of scripture. As the rational level developed within individuals it first sought to "give reasons" for their belief in myths. It sought to "rationalize" the mythic worldview. As all of this was happening within the religious domain, things were changing on other fronts. In Joseph Campbell's The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, he presents the revolutions that undermined the cosmological foundation upon which Christendom rested: The Columbian revolution 1492 (geography), 1543 the Copernican revolution (heliocentric), 1638 Newtonian revolution (physics-gravity), the Kant-Laplace revolution extended backwards Newton's laws to present a theory of the evolution of universe, 1785 the Huttonian revolution (geology -- the formation of the earth), 1859 Darwinian revolution (evolution), 1905 the Einstein revolution (physics-relativity), which explained the Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887. Each of these in turn destroyed the cosmology of Christendom forever. 11 Campbell outlines four functions that a complete mythology serves. 1. The metaphysical-mystical prospect, "the properly religious function, ... is to awaken and maintain in the individual an experience of awe, humility, and respect, in recognition of that ultimate mystery, transcending names and forms, 'from which,' as we read in the Upanishads, 'words turn back." 12 2. The cosmological prospect, "The second function of a mythology is to render a cosmology, an image of the universe, and for this we all turn today, of course, not to archaic religious texts but to science." 13 I quoted above Campbell's presentation of the scientific revolutions that brought about the downfall of the authority of the Church and neutered its 'power' to fulfill the cosmological function of mythology. 3. The social prospect, the "third traditional mythological function: the validation and maintenance of an established order." 14 An order that establishes a social moral sphere which all agree. 4. The psychological prospect, "the fourth function of an adequate mythology: the centering and harmonization of the individual, which in traditional systems was supposed to follow upon a giving of oneself, and even giving up of oneself altogether, to some one or another ..." 15 Campbell reports, "as Loren Eiseley states: 'The group ethic as distinct from personal ethics is faceless and obscure. It is whatever its leaders choose it to mean; it destroys the innocent and justifies the act in terms of the future." 16 Each of these functions had been fulfilled for over 3000 years by religion (a mythic worldview religion), but with the rise of the rational worldview on a collective level the whole thing came crashing down. But why didn't religion just go away then? First, EVERYONE is born at stage one. Each individual starts from the beginning and must grow through each stage, and only by passing through each stage (developing a basic competence at each level) can ANYONE develop up to and beyond the rational ego level. Religion is the only system that presents the lower truths of the archaic, magic, and mythic levels of being, and those truths (stage specific and partial truths) must be integrated for later healthy development. Without religion each and every child would need to make it all up, and while the Romantics among us may claim that is how it should be, anyone who has read The Lord of the Flies understands the dangers of raising a child without guidance. The second reason religion has not just gone away: regardless of which worldview one has developed, the functions of religion (in the sense of Campbell's four functions of mythology) serve certain psychological and social needs for ourselves individually and for the group we identify. While the questions we ask and the answers that satisfy us may change over time as we develop, the function(s) of religion still fulfills certain required needs. In this sense, science is just as capable of fulfilling some of the functions of a mythology. With the development of the ego (the center of gravity of the self at the rational worldview) on a collective scale, supported by the cognitive structure of formal logic, which demanded evidence of and from the senses (Locke), the Age of Reason was born. Prior to the Age of Reason those few individuals who developed up to this stage (or beyond) made their mark in history by being squashed by the dominate mythic worldview, which demanded faith. Socrates was condemned to death. Galileo had to recant his heretical assertions that the Earth circled the sun. But note: It wasn't the case that suddenly science and morals and art (and all the rest) appeared on the scene for the first time. There was science and morals and art during the Middle Ages, during the Mythic Age of humanity, but they were each embedded within the mythic worldview, fused to the "rules" of the community and one's "role" within that community. One of the clearest examples of this new development, this ability to differentiate science (reason), morals, and art, are the works of Immanuel Kant: The Critique of Pure Reason, The Critique of Practical Reason, and The Critique of Aesthetic Judgment. No earlier philosopher (except possibly Socrates and Plato) would have ever considered addressing these questions without the support of some form of religious authority. The Critique of Pure Reason established the limits of science (the rational world) and essentially crushed the philosophical ground of metaphysics as practiced by religion. The Critique of Practical Reason set forward a way of morality within the rational worldview. The Critique of Aesthetic Judgment established a foundation for evaluating art, how to and what is considered 'the beautiful," within a rational worldview. Prior to this time, each of these, was embedded within mythic-religion and developed and practiced, in a sense, in an unconscious manner. So when people make claims that religion, "b[y] it's nature of virtual survival, exists to put down other belief systems as a means of gaining and maintaining followers," - noahath, or "Many religions promote bigoted and dogmatic values which cause the world to become a worse place to live for the few rational people who reside here," - Straight Talk, or "Religion is that human thought process that makes one a slave to another," - CDavid Neely, or "Religion is a human created ideology intended to divide the common people and allow the consolidation of power among the elite," - TomBlaze, (all of which are a variation of Marx's statement that religion is "an opium of the masses") -- what they are pointing toward is not "religion" as a separate distinct thing in its self, separate from the rules of a community or the roles within the community, but to a time period when religion, art, morals, and science (along with politics, economics, psychology and all the rest) were fused together in an unconscious manner. We "moderns" are projecting our rational mentality, which has differentiated religion, art, morals and science (along with all the rest), onto a time period when no such differentiation has taken place on a collective level. [These claims were made on the Defining Religion thread.] End Part 2
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"They haven't got Brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't Think." -- Eeyore, The House At Pooh Corner Sit like a mountain, Breathe like the wind, Mind like the Sky. When all the Gods are crazy, who do you pray to? Last edited by Mahasattva; 10-06-2008 at 06:23 AM. |
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Ending this almost 300 year old war between science and religion. Part 3
Part 3
When people ask or claim, "Which wars of the past 1000 years have NOT been fought over religion?" - noahath, or "It manifests hate and intolerance and is responsible for the more deaths throughout human history than war and cancer combined." I would say that they projecting their modern understanding of religion (as a separate aspect of life, both inner and communal) onto a time when no such understanding existed. When someone asks, "Which wars of the past 1000 years have NOT been fought over religion?" I would answer very few wars have ever been fought over or for religion only. Even though so-called 'Wars of Religion' in Europe between the forces of Protestantism and the Counter-Reformation of the Roman Catholic Church were very much driven by politics. During the Crusades, religion was used as a rallying cry (just as nationalistic slogans were used during the wars of Napoleon, the American Revolution, the Crimean, the World Wars, and today in Iraq), but they were not "wars over religion." The West felt threatened by the advance of the Islamic Middle East (and there were population pressures Europe was dealing with). To say that the Crusades were "religious wars" is to ignore a host of factors that had nothing to do with religion and to forget that at that time, both the Christian West and the Islamic Middle East were cultures with mythic worldviews that had not differentiated science, morals, and art. Within oneself the ego has the capacity to differentiate mind and body, reason and religion. In the Age of Reason culture was able to differentiate the value spheres of morals, art, and science. Prior to the Age of Reason (the West's Age of Enlightenment Age of Enlightenment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) there was morals, art, and science, but they were undifferentiated and embedded within the Church. With the rise of the Age of Reason, science, art, and morals were able to expand and develop without the straightjacket of Dogma restricting their insights or their areas of study. Science free from those restrictions was able to accomplish tremendous innovations and develop new fields of thought never before dreamed. Reason became the governing principle behind governance and eventually it became the guiding principle behind culture, while the Church had to surrender its position of authority. Not that it gave up without a fight. Voltaire yelled, "Remember the cruelities!" While he was specifically referring to what he considered the crimes of religion, in fact these were the crimes of a mythic level worldview. The rational worldview championed reason and science and materialism, the mythic worldview (of Europe) championed Biblical literalism, the authority of tradition, and the conventional morality of the herd. Both denied any higher levels other than their own. The Romantic tradition did promote religious feeling, but denied any kind of transcendent spiritual intellect beyond reason. This, of course, opened one up to confusing regressive engagements for transcendent insights and practices. The rational worldview (specifically materialistic scientism) reduced all occasions and things to little more than frisky dirt. The mythic worldview fixated on one level of being as the only really real spiritual. The Romantics acknowledged religious feelings (which it had in common with scientism, the Romantics were in the rational camp), but deny spiritual insights that claim any transcendence of feelings. With the differentiation of the value spheres (art, morals, and science) and with the great innovations of science, the value spheres flew apart and disassociated. But those value spheres were incomplete. For obvious and logical reasons the leading intellectuals of the West rejected the mythic God, but unfortunately they also rejected the whole spiritual line of development. The traditionalists fixated on mythic level spirituality, but denied any higher level(s) spiritual insights. The Romantics identified feelings only as spiritual, so they tended to champion (or at least confuse) regression as the only way to spiritual truths. For a brief period there was the attempt to promote a rational level religion in the form of Deism, but it was a dry mechanistic rationalism that had no injunctions that could lead to higher level insights. There was also the attempt to promote a centauric level religion, with the German Idealists, but again there was no injunctions that could open one up to higher level insights. It was all empty metaphysics without the required practices that could open one up to an actual experience of the intuitions being pointed toward. With the rejection of the spiritual line of development, art and morals was asked to take up the task of "ultimate concern," but art and morals could not carry that weight. Science (rational materialism) invade everywhere and gutted the soul out of living. Science cannot answer what is right or wrong. Science cannot answer what is beautiful. And science cannot answer what should be our "ultimate concern." When the value spheres differentiated there should have been a differentiation of art, morals, science, AND spirituality. But spirit was considered ridiculous, regressive, or pathological. All because of a confusion between the spiritual line of development with the spiritual level of the mythic God. Spirit was repressed. At the core of all authentic contemplative traditions are certain practices that allow, encourage, open one up to a direct experiencing of the deeper level (higher level) spiritual insights that transcend any culturally created dogma. We see this in the practices of centering prayer, contemplative prayer, calm abiding, mindfulness, self witnessing and the many other injunctions that can be found in nearly all of the world's great traditions (though not necessarily promoted by all sects or denominations of each of the world's traditions). In a sense, these practices are the microscopes and telescopes of the spirit. If you want to know something, you must do something. What that something is, is determined by what you want to know. If you want to know what runs through our veins and arteries, you must learn how to take samples of that stuff that runs through your veins and arteries and learn how to use a microscope properly. Then you must "look through" the microscope. After that you compare your findings with others who have done the same experiment. If you want to know what Shakespeare meant when he wrote Hamlet, then you must learn how to read Elizabethan English and train in textual and historical analysis and read the play. If you want to understand if Einstein was correct with his equation E=MC2 then you must study and obtain the appropriate level of mathematic skill, along with the appropriate level of knowledge in basic and theoretical physics and then engage in the required experimentation that will confirm and/or deny Einstein's theories of special and general relativity. Just so, if you want to know God or have a direct experience of oneness with the God-head, you must learn how to practice the appropriate injunction (for years), master the technique and then compare your experiences with others who have also engaged in those same practices. If you want to know what a Zen master means when he (or she) talks about Sunyata you must practice one-point concentration and koan practice for years and then compare your experiences with other Zen practitioners who have also practiced. In both case you must compare your findings with fellow practitioners. Being a Zen Buddhist is not enough, nor is being a Christian enough, and neither is being a scientists enough -- you must compare your findings with a community of individuals who have engaged in the practice, who have done the very same experiment. If someone claims that it is raining outside, you must look out the window to confirm that it is raining outside. As long as spiritual development is confused with a specific level of development (mythic level religion) spirit will remain a repressed line of development which will continually arise in pathological forms with dire consequences for all. The only way I see a chance for humanity to release this shadow is by a return to the core practices of religion, not a return to the dogmatic beliefs of religion. The liberal elite must let go of its hatred of religion and stop its repression (in some case oppression) of religion. At the same time the conservative elite must let go of its fixation of the mythic level of religion and allow for the continuing development of the spiritual line. Each of these must occur if we want to see a true reconciliation between traditional premodern truths and modern and postmodern developments. Each of these must occur if we want to see an end to this almost 300 year old war between science and religion. tashi deleks, M PS. Sorry this took so long and that it is so long. ---------------------------------------- Some common definitions: Modernity: is a term that refers to the modern era. It is distinct from modernism, and, in different contexts, refers to cultural and intellectual movements of the period c. 1630-1940. The term "modern" can refer to many different things. Colloquially, it can refer in a general manner to the 20th century. For historians, the Early Modern Period refers to the period roughly from 1500 to 1800, with the Modern era beginning sometime during the 18th century. In this schema, industrialization during the 19th century marks the first phase of modernity, while the 20th century marks the second. Some schools of thought hold that modernity ended in the late 20th century, replaced by post-modernism, while others would extend modernity to cover the developments denoted by post-modernism and into the present. Modernity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Science: knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena. AOL Dictionary Religion: 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. AOL Dictionary [Notice how incomplete these definitions are compared to the ones that were listed in the poll] ______________________ 1. Integral Psychology, by Ken Wilber p. 28 2. Integral Psychology p. 29 Wilber's footnote lists well over three dozen texts to support his assertion, none that he has written. 3. The Penguin History of the World, by J. M. Roberts. p. 529 4. The Theory of Communicative Action, by Jurgen Habermas p. 58 5. The Theory of Communicative Action p. 47 6. The Theory of Communicative Action p. 50 7. The Theory of Communicative Action p. 51 8. The Penguin History of the World p. 544 9. The Penguin History of the World p. 554 10. The Penguin History of the World p 555 11. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, by Joseph Campbell p. 611-620 12. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, p. 609 13. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, p. 611 14. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, p. 621 15. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, p. 623 16. The Masks of God: Vol. 4 Creative Mythology, p. 623
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"They haven't got Brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't Think." -- Eeyore, The House At Pooh Corner Sit like a mountain, Breathe like the wind, Mind like the Sky. When all the Gods are crazy, who do you pray to? Last edited by Mahasattva; 10-06-2008 at 06:26 AM. |
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