The first thing that I want to say is that I've opened this thread for those who believe in God to discuss the current Israel/Palestine conflict with regards to the Bible. If you don't believe in God or the Bible, fine, just please don't use this thread to tell us so.

Okay, the way I see the conflict is that the land belongs to Israel through a covenant God made beginning with Abraham. It's my understanding that all the land of Canaan was given to Isaac and his descendants and the land now known as Saudi Arabia went to Ishmael and his descendants. I must admit that it's been quite a few years since I've studied this but I'm interested in others' opinions of who the land of Israel belongs to and of the current conflict in regards to biblical prophecy.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

If you want me to stay out of this thread I will respect that but I wondering if you think the policy of the U.S. should be based on Biblical history in regards to Israel. Otherwise I am interested in the topic and wanted to post so it shows up when I click User CP. If anything it will give me more incite into the view by some on the topic.

I don't mind if you post as you've always shown respect for my religious views even while not agreeing with them.

To your question...as a Christian, it's hard to not think that the US must support Israel based on the Bible. According to Zechariah 12:4-5, God will eventually destroy any nation that is against Israel: "In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God." The Bible also says of Israel, "whoever blesses them shall be blessed; whoever curses them shall be cursed." That is one of the main reasons Christians have always supported her.
Ultimately, I do believe that the US will support Israel, not directly because of the Bible but rather because so many will it so without realizing that they are biblically correct.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

I wouldn't say I'm against Israel or think the U.S. should be against it in any way. I do wish we didn't bankroll their military though. Personally I don't think either side in the conflict could be called the good guys.

Ok, well, I'm not gonna go look this up, but here's the way I remember the story. God did make a covenant with Abraham. But Sarah thought she was barren so she had a bond (slave) woman sleep with him and become impregnated with his child. THEN Sarah herself, quite old, became pregnant.

There are two children here both sets of descendants belonging to Abraham. But one child is the son of the bond woman (Hagar, I believe). And one child is the son of the free woman (Sarah).

The Arabs, descendants of the bond woman, and the Jews, descendants of the free womanh, are related through Abraham. The descendants of the bond woman and the desendants of the free woman have been fighting since they were old enough to be enemies. Too bad Sarah and Abraham didn't wait on God. We wouldn't have this mess.

Edited to add: Those names were right. The Arabs are the children of Ishmael and the Jews are the children of Israel.

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We need an ally in the east. If the US had been the mother of modern China, and we had the chance, we wouldn't be fighting anybody in the east. So we take what we can get.

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I can definitely understand your point of view. I'm not sure how I would feel if it wasn't for my biblical upbringing.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

Right, Hagar was told that Ismael would be a wild man and that "his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him".

I think Sarah's and Abraham's plight stands as a good reason why we shouldn't be impatient when we ask God for something!

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

True, or when God promises something. From the Old Testament: "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint" (Isaiah 40:31).

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Let's try another tack. I'm going to start by saying that the Biblical account does have some relevance, because the other people of Palestine besides the Jews are mostly Muslims, and those who aren't either of those are Christians, and all three religions refer to the same mythic/historical background. So regardless of my opinion of the veracity of that mythic history, the fact that all of those involved agree about the essentials of it makes it relevant.

Now, some history since the time of Abraham may also be relevant, as is reference to Judaism as a modern belief-system and what it entails.

The ancient Hebrews, and later the Jews (I'll explain the difference momentarily because it's important), were displaced from Palestine at least three times, once for reasons unknown (after which they returned and conquered the land under Joshua), once by the Babylonians (they returned after Babylon was conquered by Persia), and once by the Romans (they returned in modern times). It was during the Babylonian captivity that the religion of the Hebrews evolved from its crude polytheistic tribal roots and became the profound monotheistic faith that we know today as Judaism. Since Jews today are followers of that profound and deeply moral faith, and not of the bloodcurdling, murderous, savage genocidal ways of their ancient ancestors, any answer we devise should be consistent with modern Judaism, and not merely with the ancient tribal ways of Joshua the mass-murderer.

Jews today believe that their status as the chosen people of God is more responsibility than privilege. It means that God demands more of them than of other peoples in the way of humility, sacrifice, and purity. It also means that God sometimes puts them to tests that He would not apply to other peoples. And finally, it means that possession of the land of their ancestors, or of any land of their own, is not unconditional, but must be earned, not merely by success in battle (which the Israelis have certainly achieved), but also by being good people and true to the demands of God (which, arguably, they have not). From a Jewish perspective, the behavior of the state of Israel since its founding has sometimes been of the sort that seems to call for a classic prophetic diatribe threatening divine wrath.

That being the case, if Americans want to be on the side of God (although I agree with Partofme that to make this our official policy would be unconstitutional), it is not at all clear that we want to be unreservedly on the side of Israel.

And what makes our being on the side of Israel 'undeserved?'

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I said "unreserved." I'm not even sure what "underserved" means. Inadequately subservient? Served on a paper plate? Buffet-style?

Anyway -- we continue to support Israel regardless of Israeli behavior not only towards the Palestinians and other neighbors and/or conquered peoples, but even towards us. They plant spies in our government, they even attack our ships, and we may deport the spies or we may call them naughty boys, but we keep signing the checks.

It does seem that you are saying we are supporting the undeservedly. So I thought your word was a typo.

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Here TS. It pays to increase your word power.

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You're right that Israel often tests our friendship and generosity but to turn our backs on her wouldn't be wise either (biblically speaking, of course). From a Christian standpoint, I think any major punishment will come from God, not the US.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"