Thread: Religion and Politics

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?

Absolutely not.

There are simply too many people who adhere to other faiths for those of any one faith to dictate policy and law. I begrudge no one their faith. However, when they start to legislate from a religious perspective, they begrudge me mine...

How do you think that Religion affects policy, both domestic and international?

That depends on who's making the policy...

Would you push for more religion in politics or less? why?

Less, for the reason stated in my first answer...

Is the United States a Christian Nation? or not?

I do not believe it is. Certainly there are a large number of Christians in this country; a whoppingly large number. However, while we were founded by men of faith, these men also understood that not everyone in this country were, or would be, of their same faith.

It would've been easy for them to create a country overtly built around the Bible, as many who were here also held a very deep faith. They chose not to do that, though.

We are a Christian nation as much as we are a Hindu natio, a Jewish nation, or a Mulsim nation. No one faith gets more clout than any other, and it should always be that way...

[QUOTE=lpfan13612;1390924]
Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?

no. ethics and morals sure but not religion.

How do you think that Religion affects policy, both domestic and international?

not really

Would you push for more religion in politics or less? why?

more ethics and morality, less religion

Is the United States a Christian Nation? or not?

we are a nation of mostly Christians and as such much of it's ethics and morals are ingrained into our fabric.

if majority want it to be a Christian nation then it is, if they don't then it isn't. for the time being.

Originally Posted by metalted

if majority want it to be a Christian nation then it is, if they don't then it isn't. for the time being.

by christian nation, do you mean a nation state that happens to be composed of many christians, or a nation state that is founded upon christian principles, and contains laws and constitutions derived from biblical texts?

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?

No. Religion is based on faith - the denial of reality. Politics deals with the real relationships between real individuals.

How do you think that Religion affects policy, both domestic and international?

As Steve said, it depends on who's in power. Conservatives (theists of all stripes) have an amorphous god, liberals (in the modern sense) have a more tangible god. Who's in power determines which god is served. However, one thing will remain unchanged: antagonism toward individuals specifically, and therefore humanity in general, which leads to contradictory policies and negates the entire purpose of government.

Would you push for more religion in politics or less? why?

Less, for the reasons stated above.

Is the United States a Christian Nation? or not?

As others have pointed out, it depends upon what you mean by the question. Our roots are clearly Judeo/Christian, far more of our population is Judeo/Christian, much of our culture and mores are determined by Judeo/Christian culture and mores.

Are we a theocracy? Is our government "Christian?" Clearly not.

Here are the questions that i ask you:

Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?

depends on what you mean. Officially, no. The United States should not run the government on a specific set of religious doctrines, support a religious institution, or tell people what to believe in general. This is for obviously the safety of the government, but more importantly (in my opinion) the safety of church.

On a practical note however, for a person of faith it is impossible to vote or make any decision without their faith values. Thus, my faith effects much of my politics. Example: I am against the death penalty because i don't think it shows the grace of God in society.

How do you think that Religion affects policy, both domestic and international?

If we look at Bush, it obviously effected policy somewhat. An example is his abstinence education.

Would you push for more religion in politics or less? why?

Less, as i said, for the safety of the church and the state both must be kept separate. This does not mean that social justice cannot be pushed for, but doctrine and politics must be kept separate.

Is the United States a Christian Nation? or not?

While some concepts in US politics have their basis in Christian theology (example: Checks in Balances has it's roots in the belief that all people are sinful), and some movements have been lead by religious leaders (example: Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King Jr.), they have long since departed. The fact is, most of the founders where deists, not Christians.

Hey,

Thanks everyone for contributing. however, i cant really use any of this information if i don't have the information above in the first post. If you do not wish to be apart of my dissertation its ok, but please either way you go let me know. Just so i don't get too mixed up when i try and compile this into a coherent paper. And im sorry to all, i should have been clearer (i was on my way to class using my ipod to post), but i just wanted someone to post a real in depth look at just one or two questions. ok so now that i have more time i want to elaborate even further.


My goal is to basically do a rough interview over the internet. Its still an experiment and may not even make it to the final product but its worth a shot. the reason i want the information in the first post is so that i can connect what you say to the literature that i have. I have the literature broken down into Conservative, Moderate and Liberal. And each piece makes their own case for either incorporating MORE religion and "faith" into the political realm or the complete opposite. And some just want to identify religion as a factor in international disputes such as the Mid East and the Cold War.

And i constantly have this habit of interchanging the word "religion" when i mean "faith". its a subconscious thing and i try to catch myself. But the difference between faith and religion is that religion itself teaches things, or tries, such as morals and ethics. Whereas "faith" requires blind obedience to ones religion. If religion were a tree faith would be the roots. I want to get to the roots of Faith in the political realm.

some things i want to dig deeper on:

It would've been easy for them to create a country overtly built around the Bible, as many who were here also held a very deep faith. They chose not to do that, though.

We are a Christian nation as much as we are a Hindu natio, a Jewish nation, or a Mulsim nation. No one faith gets more clout than any other, and it should always be that way...

Although i do understand where you are coming from, Many devout christians believe that The United States is a "Christian Nation" of sorts, The founding fathers understood the harm religion plays in politics but times have changed. We are slipping more and more into a religious "coma" of sorts. How do you see the current affairs in places such as Congress, The Senate, and the most recent inauguration where so much emphasis was placed on Christianity. Opening prayers, closing prayers, ministers and preachers making long winded "God-speeches" and always ending with the phrase "God bless you and God Bless America". How does this marginalize other religions, or even those who are "non-believers", in your opinion. You said that this is a nation of hindus, muslims and jews just as much as christians, but it seems that more emphasis is placed on Christianity. Is this the right behavior for a "secular" Government? why/ why not?

we are a nation of mostly Christians and as such much of it's ethics and morals are ingrained into our fabric.

Im sorry if what im about to say offends anyone, but the majority of "Christians" do not live the morals that are preached in the bible, nor do i think that some of these morals SHOULD be followed by anyone. These morals and ethics seem to be somewhat empty when it comes to its delivery. Believe it or not, "Christian morals" were only integrated into the united states on a hard core level after the Bolsheviks came to power in Russia in 1917. The Godless commies from the east pushed the United states into a weird sort of limelight. We (americans) wanted to present ourselves as the moral nation where chaos is unheard of. Should this ideology of Christian morals and ethics continue to shape our way of life even if the morals themselves are not actually being implemented?

On a practical note however, for a person of faith it is impossible to vote or make any decision without their faith values. Thus, my faith effects much of my politics. Example: I am against the death penalty because i don't think it shows the grace of God in society.

Ok so how would you vote, an atheist or a non-religious person vs. a WASP male? Connecting Christianity to politics has been a long time tradition of the church, but it only adds to the ignorance of the people.There were many people who voted for Bush jr because of his faith and not his politics. Now im not saying that because you oppose the death penalty it is wrong, but when you connect god and faith to it it seems like a problem would be near to the surface. (in my opinion, you should oppose it because its wrong, not because of anything that has to do with god) does this make any sense?

See the problem with the internet is that its so impersonal and i don't really tell sarcasm, anger, or any other emotion that would be clear in a personal interview.

Thanks again to those who participate!

lpfan

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Hello everyone.

I am writing my dissertation on a topic that is full of touchy subjects. I would like to get opinions from people who are elsewhere in the United States. So if you could, give your opinion, your name (does not have to be real), Age, Location, any religious affiliations, and Any political affiliations. ...
lpfan

You have included a quote from Bill Maher as your signature. This indicates a strong bias against religious faith on your own part. It may be that you do not agree with it - but it is generally understood that a signature does reflect something of our own views.

You have included it while starting a thread on a "touchy" topic. You include a very odd reference to religion and politics being "intertwined". What - exactly - does that mean to you? I have no idea what it means.

By the way, if you are going to include a signature from an atheist, you can do far better than Maher. Freud? Thomas Paine? Mark Twain?

Surely anyone is preferable to Maher.

Originally Posted by Tim

You have included a quote from Bill Maher as your signature. This indicates a strong bias against religious faith on your own part. It may be that you do not agree with it - but it is generally understood that a signature does reflect something of our own views.

You have included it while starting a thread on a "touchy" topic. You include a very odd reference to religion and politics being "intertwined". What - exactly - does that mean to you? I have no idea what it means.

By the way, if you are going to include a signature from an atheist, you can do far better than Maher. Freud? Thomas Paine? Mark Twain?

Surely anyone is preferable to Maher.

Ok, well. First i must say that i am non-religious. and i highly respect Maher for the things that he says. It takes balls. And i respect that, even when i believe that he is being a dick, he still has my respect. And to be honest i respect him more than Freud, Paine and Twain only because i have followed what he says more than what i have seen of the other three. I don't idolize him, as many people would claim, i just respect him and i respect the quote that i put as my signature.

Second, Religion has always been involved in religion. from the dark ages till today. As seen with every opening of the house/senate. Also with the inauguration of the current president (who is a democrat, which in my mind SHOULD be more secular). I don't believe that its right when people interject any sort of faith/religion into politics. my thing is that a leader of the country is supposed to represent the whole, in America there are more than just christians and since we cannot include ALL religions in all public affairs, we should not include any. that is just a small part, i could write pages on what i think, but thats not the point of the thread. I want other peoples opinions.

And many people who post on my threads know my religious stance, i am pretty open about it. So if you want, contribute your own ideas here.

lpfan

Originally Posted by metalted

if majority want it to be a Christian nation then it is, if they don't then it isn't. for the time being.

Which majority, where. Does the majority in Mississippi get to choose the majority in NYC? Why or why not? What about Atheists, why aren't their 'religious' beliefs included. If they aren't religious beliefs then why aren't they? (buddhist and taoists don't have a god either) If you aren't including those beliefs because they don' make a fuss then when and why did that become a criteria for inclusion?

If people would actually READ the letter Jefferson sent to the Danbury Church then you see THAT'S why he thought there should be a "wall" separating Church and State, NOT to guarantee that everyone who had 10 more members than any other Church in their area would have the right to put their creche up in the town square with a big howdy and fuck you to all the commie juz and godless muzlims who better not open their infidel mouths on the matter.

Hope that helps your dissertation

if I understood your later post, you seem to require this

So if you could, give your opinion, your name (does not have to be real), Age, Location, any religious affiliations, and Any political affiliations.

in addition to the below

jim
54
Richmond VA
Episcopal
none

[QUOTE=daddio;1390942]

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?

no. ethics and morals sure but not religion.




not really




more ethics and morality, less religion




we are a nation of mostly Christians and as such much of it's ethics and morals are ingrained into our fabric.

• Do you think that religion and politics should be intertwined in the United States? Why or why not?
  Absolutely not. Religion is corrupted in direct proportion to its level of involvement in politics and government. The abuses perpetrated by the Catholic church in medeival times and Islamic states today should make that obvious to even a casual observer.
  
• Would you push for more religion in politics or less? why?
  Less. Mencken pointed out that "A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man. In order to get anywhere near high office he has to make so many compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes indistinguishable from a streetwalker." Allowing (never mind encouraging) such people to mouth religious platitudes as a means of gaining political advantage is offensive to any person who values religion at all.
• Is the United States a Christian Nation? or not?
  Of course not. No more than it is a white nation or a female nation. The fact that a group is the majority in this country does not make it theirs.

Originally Posted by lpfan13612

Hey,

Ok so how would you vote, an atheist or a non-religious person vs. a WASP male? Connecting Christianity to politics has been a long time tradition of the church, but it only adds to the ignorance of the people.There were many people who voted for Bush jr because of his faith and not his politics. Now im not saying that because you oppose the death penalty it is wrong, but when you connect god and faith to it it seems like a problem would be near to the surface. (in my opinion, you should oppose it because its wrong, not because of anything that has to do with god) does this make any sense?


Ipfan

Well it's not that black and white. If a person is an atheist i have no problem voting for him as long as i agree with his politics and he/she is not hostile to the church. Typically i am a small government conservative so if an atheist is running with those principles and a Christian running on a platform of big government spending, i will vote for the atheist who is for small government. I could not vote for Bush, for example, because i didn't agree with politics (and i don't agree with his theology either, but that's not really a reason to not vote for him).

Also, I recognize that if government starts making laws considering religion, it has overstepped it's bounds. So if a Christian is running on a platform of turning this nation into a "Christian" republic than i would have to vote against him/her because that person is endangering both the religion and the state. It is a fine line, but i will use faith to determine my beliefs about such things as AIDS research, humanitarian aid, welfare, and the like, but will vote against the Christian trying to use the government as a voice for Theology statements.