Any political philosophy which posits the non humanity of any group of humans is by definition not a libertarian philosophy.

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The most important political office is that of the private citizen.
Justice Louis D Brandeis

You are completely ignoring the libertarian society because of PC in 2009. The way the society was was libertarian. They just viewed slaves like they did cattle.

If everything was the same except the slaves were free, it was a libertarian society. Stop cluttering the debate up with nonsense.

The Old West was a frontier, such places are beyond civilization, not purposely uncivilized. The vast majority of Old West towns had anti-gun ordinances. OK Corral was a gun control dispute. The vast,VAST majority of people who lived in the Old West didn't carry guns most of the time and they hunted less than we do, as they didn't have the leisure. There was also widespread belief that game meat was both dangerous (generally corect) and unpalatable.

Somalia comes to mind but that is a failed state, not a functioning country.

Most libertarian by rankings of State of World Liberty Project is presently Estonia.


hmmmm....that is rather close to what I think an actual libertarian state would be like

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

Do you really believe that? You do know the difference between libertarianism and Anarchy?

So Debtor's prison, slavery, the disenfranchisement of women, widespread and very restrictive laws on dress, deportment, even what part of town you could enter given your "class", these are all parts of the Randian Paradise??

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

Nobody has control over these nations and those aren't libertarian principles.

Libertarianism IS a type of anarchy. Most political analysts place it very squarely under the Black Flag. Rand denies it, but in the same breath she bases one of her main books on Anarchy by Deed, the most radical type.

I deleted Somalia in a later post, as it is not a functioning state. Anarchisms all propose functioning societys are possible under their rule

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

Well, they were widespread in America in it's first hundred years.

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

I'm sorry, but if you think Somalia is libertarian, you have zero clue what you're talking about and should really save yourself the embarrassment by shutting up.

No, really, I'm serious.

PC? PC?? You call acknowledging the humanity of all humans PC??? Slavery was the economic engine of large parts of this country, Whites believed blacks were cattle because it was convenient and profitable to do so. People who cared about liberty and who might have been classified as libertarians thought of slavery as an abomination long before this country was founded. Even many slave owneres did so. If pointing this out to you is "nonsense" so be it. Some people (as slavery showed) will believe whatever they need to regardless of the evidence.

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The most important political office is that of the private citizen.
Justice Louis D Brandeis

But libertarians dont seek a stronger society as a whole. They seek one just strong enough to protect the individual so that the individual can be as strong as they want or can be. If there were no gun laws, the libertarian individual would be safer. If there was no dept of education, the libertarian individual would be better educated. If there was no regulation of the financial sector, the libertarian individual would have a more secure economic situation. The libertarian individual is not concerned with how strong the rest of society is in these matters as long it doesnt affect his liberty, and he beleive he likewise shouldnt affect their liberty.

Im not aware of any countries with libertarian style authority. Almost all countries are either socialist democracies, or authoritarian.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

I knew you were going to do this.

This isn't about slavery, get over it. What I posted was on point and the country was libertarian. It wasn't all whites that owned slaves either, there were black slave owners.

If we did everything the same as we did then only with free slaves, would you say it's not libertarian?

You are only focusing on one group (not surprised), just think about how the country operated.

It was a libertarian society for everybody except the slaves, ok. Swaying the debate in this direction (after slavery was already mentioned by Disillusioned in the second post) is just tiring. Nobody here is advocating slavery.


edit: And yes, you are overreacting because of PC in 2009.

Really? In K-12? I'd say they're being taught a few generally useful skills, spend a few years learning useless bullshit they will almost certainly never need to use, and come out with next to no applicable and specific job training.

Somalia has a libertarian form of government, with a relatively weak central government and a private sector that's free to do almost whatever it wants.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Weakness and ineffectiveness are not qualities of a libertarian society. A libertarian society has to have strong contract enforcement capabilities, for example. Don't confuse "limited" with weak and ineffective.