Thread: Censorship question[sensitive issue}

Originally Posted by Doug Yesberg

Okay guys, here’s an interesting subject….holocaust denial…..well, maybe not H denial itself so much, but moreso the idea that we should censor historians studying the issue and allowing their results to be made public.

For the record, I’m studying philosophy at the moment, and I was chatting away with one of my offline philosophy buddies, and he basically asked me whether I thought that any historical event should be banned from investigation……that said, I think he may have set me up in that before he asked me, we were discussing philosophy in general including it’s tradition of analysis and dissent etc.

Either way, when he asked me whether I thought historical events should be excluded from study and public consumption, I said no, of course not…..however, he then asked me, “even the holocaust?”……and I must admit I was a bit startled by it, but I still said no.

He knows I’m Jewish, but I’m not devout or anything, in fact, I’m probably an embarrassment to my tribe, but that aside, I felt somewhat uneasy by the question, granted it may be down to my suspicion that he spent the first 10mins setting me up for the big H bomb, but after reflecting upon it, I maintain my view, and I’m curious what you guys think?

As some of you might know, you can’t publicly deny the Holocaust in Germany, and I guess that’s not as outrageous as it might sound, but should we go global with this ban, or just restrict it to Germany and any of the European countries that were worst effected by the tragedy of Hitler’s final solution…?

Please note, I'm not really interested in discussing the nuts and bolts of the Holocaust, my question relates to the role of censorship.

While it isn't PC, I really think in the US you can legally affirn, deny, or ignore the holocaust as long as you are not inciting others to violence.

Originally Posted by Sunshine

While it isn't PC, I really think in the US you can legally affirn, deny, or ignore the holocaust as long as you are not inciting others to violence.

Cool, but should we extend Germany's ban to the US ?, and should we go global?

I don't think you can ban speech critical of or studies attempting to debunk the Holocaust.

But you can bombard said morons with truth, preferably from a helicopter.

In short, no. The supposed benefits aren't worth the sacrifice of principle.

To censor it and ignore it leads to repeating it.

Originally Posted by Commodore

I don't think you can ban speech critical of or studies attempting to debunk the Holocaust.

Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as Nazi symbols.
Holocaust denial is not criminalized in the United States because of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. It is also not an offence in the United Kingdom, although laws against libel or inciting racial hatred may apply.

Yeah but they've banned it in parts of Europe, and the world hasn't fallen apart, so why shouldn't we make the ban global, and why shouldn't the US make an exception for this subject??

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

In short, no. The supposed benefits aren't worth the sacrifice of principle.

Not even in Germany?

Originally Posted by Doug Yesberg

Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yeah but they've banned it in parts of Europe, and the world hasn't fallen apart, so why shouldn't we make the ban global, and why shouldn't the US make an exception for this subject??

One exception opens the door for others. That's a good enough reason for me to keep the issue open. The pigheadedness of others should not be used as an excuse to begin depriving rights to the people. Unless there is advocacy of harm to others, I can't see how you could do it without setting a dangerous precedent.

Originally Posted by Doug Yesberg

Not even in Germany?

Not in my opinion.

Originally Posted by BamaGuy

To censor it and ignore it leads to repeating it.

Good point. It seems that the version of events seems to change on a regular basis.

No man in his right mind can deny the visual horrors captured on film during world war II, Yet the same racial separatist genocide is still occurring in the world today.

Somehow, over time, exactly what you predicted above has shown true.

One might even say that to censor it, revise it, repackage it and repeat it has been successful.

.

Originally Posted by turnitup5000db

One exception opens the door for others. That's a good enough reason for me to keep the issue open.

But do you have any valid reason/s to doubt the veracity of the holocaust?....if not, what harm would it do to shut this one down given the scale?
An exception doesn't have to set a precedence for anything other than other exceptions for incidents of this magnitude and certainty.

As we have absolutely no cause to doubt the holocaust, it seems reasonable to assume that anyone attempting to deny it must have an agenda other than the true historical facts.

Originally Posted by Doug Yesberg

But do you have any valid reason/s to doubt the veracity of the holocaust?....if not, what harm would it do to shut this one down given the scale?
An exception doesn't have to set a precedence for anything other than other exceptions for incidents of this magnitude and certainty.

As we have absolutely no cause to doubt the holocaust, it seems reasonable to assume that anyone attempting to deny it must have an agenda other than the true historical facts.

I see no valid reason to believe in God, but you don't see me wanting to ban religion.

Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

Not in my opinion.

Perhaps you could outline the benefits and basis of holocaust denial, especially in Germany?