Thread: International Burn a Quran Day~

Originally Posted by Commodore

Firm, gravity defying breasts?

Seriously, this is as just as bad of an idea as the Ground Zero mosque for the very same reasons.

What is maddening is how the very same people who wanted everyone to know about any time we made a captured terrorist uncomfortable, shouted from the rooftops that we may have flushed a Koran, all but leafleted pictures of Abu Ghraib onto the streets, and proclaimed on the floor of Congress that our troops are murders, kicking down doors on women and children in the dark of night, and running gulags, now, and only now, are the actions of this solitary attention whore endangering our troops.

Excellent point Commodore. If our goose is so cooked there that something like this will cause us that much damange, we need to get our butts out of there.

I have several issues with this on many levels and on either side of the issue.

1. I think it's in the same category as snake handling where the individuals are concerned. It will be dangerous to them for sure. Will it be dangerous to me because I leave my Quran on the shelf for future reading? If it is then we have bigger issues than this. Will it be dangerous to me because I leave my Bible on the shelf for future reading? Again....bigger issues.

2. But wait, what they are doing is NOT illegal, so why all the hype? There are many things and people who never get their well deserved 15 minutes of fame, so why these people?

3. Let's just say we shut up everyone who opposes a mosque where zoning is already in place; and let's just say that we shut these people up; and let's ignore the brutal practice of female circumcision, because it is illegal you know, and because it's illegal they would never violate our laws and not do it. Let's just say we PC ourselves to death and they undeservedly get affirmative action just like our own blacks deservedly did. Then what? How long will it be until we are oppressed, starting with women first?

4. When did keeping our mouths shut and giving up our rights become a military strategy? I think Patraeus may be right, but he is foolish to suggest that we are in such a bad position strategically that we have to give up our rights on the home front. He is supposed to be fighting for our rights. WTF is it with him? We have already given up a lot. There are many people, particularly in my generation of Vietnam protestors who would have protested the Iraq war, but didn't 'for the boys.' Hell, Bush even got elected 'for the boys.' His popularity rating was so low as to have made it impossible for him to win a second term, but he did and it was 'for the boys.' If 'the boys' can't do their job because of something like this, they need to come on home. But I said that.

5. Wasn't the Patriot Act enough? They watch our every move. Now we all have to keep our mouths shut too. Geeze!

They need to let these fools be and the PRESS needs to shut up about it. THE PRESS should never have blown this up the way they have. It just isn't that newsworthy. I mean next somebody will have an issue with those foot washing Baptists down the road or that Pentecostal church I pass every day with the sign that says "God's anger has arose." Damn, I want to add a line that says 'Does it have a daisy too?' God what a radical thing to even think!

Originally Posted by Commodore

Firm, gravity defying breasts?

Hold up there hoss, now you're treading on my religious fanaticism....

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Hold up there hoss, now you're treading on my religious fanaticism....

All us old gals of the 60s wear our belly button between them, and it was all for the cause, so don't make up don the burka too!

Originally Posted by Sunshine

All us old gals of the 60s wear our belly button between them, and it was all for the cause, so don't make up don the burka too!

Enter the push up bra....by the time he finds out, he's not gonna give a shit anyway.

No burquas though...unless they're a Dixie flag motif or something....hmmm, sounds like money to be made there for Holloween and stuff.

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Enter the push up bra....by the time he finds out, he's not gonna give a shit anyway.

No burquas though...unless they're a Dixie flag motif or something....hmmm, sounds like money to be made there for Holloween and stuff.

OMG!

Weird how Liberals and Progressives stand behind a persons right to burn a American Flag, but think it's such a bad thing to burn a book cherished by the ones that attacked this country on 9/11...

heh...

I bet if the same preacher was holding a burn the American flag or bible day the libs would not even mention it...

Originally Posted by Ernie S.

Sure it will, but just about everything we do or say causes radical Muslims to hate us. We talk about burning qurans and they behead reporters. I'm thinking that dropping a half million flaming qurans on Mecca might let them know that they've pissed us off. Frankly I don't give 2 shits whether or not radical Islam likes us, but they should fear us.

It seems to me that we're so busy letting our frustrations/anger cloud our judgment that we have lost sight of what is important. While I don't argue that we have freedom of speech and expression in this country, and thus should have the right to burn a book, flag, etc., it is, in this instance, a stupid and counter productive action to take. The same same Constitution that provides for free speech also gives us the right to participate in whatever religion we choose. As a Born-Again Christian who has friends who are missionaries in countries who can be killed for even having a Bible I take that very seriously. You change people through your actions.
I'm tired of a nation that prides itself on it's freedoms, rights, beliefs, etc. and then is unwilling to extend them to those who do not profess those values then we obviously do not believe in the Declaration of Independence and the words contained within.

I am curious but how many Korans were burned by this preacher on Spet 11th 2000? I mean obviously something caused what happened the following year.. right?

Originally Posted by Sunshine

What is rational about burning an American flag? What is rational about burning one's bra? What is rational about wearing a shirt that says 'fuck the draft?' What is rational about any of the civil unrest I witnessed in the 1960s? Oh right, you weren't there. Well here's a flash: All of that irrationality resulted in social change.

I'm guessing you misunderstood me. I was saying that it would be ridiculous to 'battle' the lack of knowledge that some Muslims have about America and Americans and of the world at large with our own brand of ignorance. I have no issue with people expressing dislike of Muslim extremism, but Muslim extremism is already bat shit insane enough to express hatred of without having to make up facts about it.

(BTW, wearing a shirt that says "fuck the draft' would be completely rational for someone who doesn't like the draft, as would social unrest in a land of social inequality. )

And as I said before, muslims are not former slaves of the US. We owe them nothing. Not even a mosque in a strip mall where they don't pay for adequate parking according to an ordinance that existed LONG BEFORE THEY ARRIVED IN THAT TOWN. As long as they weren't acting the fool blowing up our buildings and were content to be treated like every other American, they have been most welcome in this country evidenced by the 1400+ mosques in the US. WikiAnswers - How many mosques are there in the US But ya know what! Something changed. And people who insist they be treated with accommodations as though they are former slaves will usher in an age of terror for WOMEN the likes of which this country has never seen! It is ALREADY happening to some women now in the form of female genital mutilation

"We" owe "them" nothing? Don't lose site of the fact (as you've pointed out) that Muslims are Americans. America doesn't owe anyone anything, you're right. But allowing one to practice their constitutional rights as not America 'owing you'. I don't get the 2nd amendment because America owes it to me, I get it because that is my right as a human being and the government cannot take it away from me.

Ahhh, but you can get 'up in arms' over some silly people in Florida doing something that has been blown completely out of proportion by the press! Got it!

What are you talking about?

Where have I gone "up in arms" over this silly thing in Florida? Before you chimed in, I had only three posts in this thread and neither of them expressed my personal opinion on the matter. Personally, I think it'd a bit ridiculous, and with my brother serving in Iraq I'm a bit nervous about it causing some trouble for the troops, but otherwise, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Sounds pretty "up in arms", doesn't it?

I have posted threads on many similar incidents. One was about a teen in Mexico shot dead in his own country by an American border patrol agent.

Okay. And are all the people who didn't post in those threads expressing outrage suffering from moral dissonance? Or maybe they just had bigger personal concerns in their life so the deaths of 10 people who went into a war zone completely unarmed where a good chunk of the population doesn't like them didn't really bring that "outrage" out?

OF course Bibles and Christianity are not outlawed in muslim countries. Excellent ! Most Excellent!

Yes, I'm glad you see how I was correcting tsquare's mistake.

Apparently neither is murder of Christians possessing Bibles.

Not sure, guess we'd have to check the law books, now wouldn't we?

Something you can't be bothered to even acknowledge, let alone think about..:rolleyes:

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean.

Originally Posted by CSA

Weird how Liberals and Progressives stand behind a persons right to burn a American Flag, but think it's such a bad thing to burn a book cherished by the ones that attacked this country on 9/11...

heh...

I bet if the same preacher was holding a burn the American flag or bible day the libs would not even mention it...

The question is not the right to burn the Bible, Quran, American Flag, etc. I think that is a right that I would defend. The question is whether it is good judgment to do so. In this case, I think it is poor judgment and counterproductive. By the way, I am a Born Again Christian and I would no more burn the Quran than I would the Bible. I may disavow Islam but I would not disrespect the people. And most Islams are not terrorists.

Originally Posted by Sunshine

But female circumcision is still practiced in the US even though it is a crime. And it is Sharia law: Islamic Law on Female Circumcision

Even Amnesty International has spoken out about it. Yet, this practice continues even in America.

Ok this is off topic but I will answer you anyway.

Female Circumcition has no basis in Islam. Infact there is no mention of it whatsoever in Quran. There is one saying of the prophet (pbuh) which has been classed as weak,.. meaning it has poor authenticity and no one can prove it to be linked to the prophet pbuh. This is enough for the average muslim to completely stay away from this practice.

The fact is, very few communities practice this in egypt and somalia and other poor african nations. Personally, I dont know anyone who supports this or practices it.

The same applies to honour killings for example, we covered this before in here. These practices come out of corrupt tradition practices in very poor communities. Ignorance is to blame.

Just to gain perspective on crime, homosexuality was once a crime and practiced in secret in America. It has now come into the main stream. How long until this practice, under the guise of 'religious freedom' will be forced upon women in America?

Again, off topic but if you want to talk about this elsewhere I am willing to go into detail on homosexuality and what islam says about it.

Ah, but killing American aid workers who possess Bibles doesn't seem to be such a problem. :rolleyes:

Killing American or non American aid workers (who are innocent and civilian) is against Islam and Islam strictly forbade killing innocent people. This is clearly mentioned in the Quran numerous times.

However, under occupation and war, if there is strong evidence that anyone is helping US Army or any invading army to kill innocent Muslims or non-Muslims in Iraq/Afghanistan etc... then they would be classed as "the enemy".

Now can we get back to the topic please?

WS.

Originally Posted by Steve

I see.

So, if this burning isn't stopped, it will show the world that America hates Islam? If that's true, then the actions of a few piece of shit muslims is all the rest of the world needs to hate the religion en masse.

Dude, you will not see in a Muslim country an organised day to burn The Bible, and this process protected by the government of that country. This is like from the 12th century... a government asking for a holy war.

Yes if America allows this lunatic to go ahead, it will show as if America is supportive of this action. Majority of Muslims will not care about this man's right to do this, personally I understand this right under your country's law, however, to the rest of the Muslim World, they will see this as, "America hates Islam and we were right all along and the extremists were right all along" etc. . do you see where this is goin? It is very counter productive and it will backlash unecessary reactions.

Here's the problem, though, Chief. Most people here don't think the mosque (let's call it what it is, shall we?) should be built there. Ergo, the efforts of muslims trying to build it are such that they are trying to force something on the community which the community does not want.

How the fuck is that "closing the gap" or "building a bridge"?

Ok lets play your game shall we, Chief!!

If they have the required and approved planning permission, ownership title of the land, and all health n safety certificates to go ahead with this project, then I am afraid this is within the law. The fact that you dont want Muslims to build anything in NYC, will be completely disregarded and ignored.

They said it is a community centre, a mosque doesnt look like a 13 storey building. A mosque would have a well known architecture with two minarets etc.

Having said the above, I agree the issue is very sensitive particularly since the project is close to ground zero. The intention however is to bring the muslim community closer to the other communities to build bridges and try to get rid of some of the misconceptions and hatred flying around post 9/11.

Do something good! Communicate with Muslims in your community face to face... they would love to just have a friendly discussion with other members of the community.

WS.

Now then!

On the topic of Quran Burning.

How come the Media has given this lunatic so much attention... i turned to cnn, al jazeera, cnbc, bbc. .. everywhere...he is on there. Gosh! small church and they said 13 or so members? got this much attention?

I understand the media wants masses to turn to their channels but this is ridiculous... givin this issue mainstream attention is causing this problem to worsen.

I suppose anything to do with angering Muslims... . cartoons etc will bring in $$$$$$.

But why give this guy so much attention knowing that his intention is to spark a reaction, create hatred and more intollerance and division amongst communities. It is not good enough to just comdemn this.... this asshole is gona destroy whatever good thats been done by both sides of the spectrum.

What type of Christianity does he follow? Is there a particular sect? Friggin extremist with blind followers.

WS.