Thread: Burn It All

If the whole shithouse burns down it's going to get really ugly. We'll not only have Americans fighting Americans but there will be other interests that want to get their hands on a piece of the debris as well. I'm not so sure if those who are looking at this scenario (and they're on both sides of the aisle) have a really good idea of what a meltdown would be like.

Originally Posted by lutherf

If the whole shithouse burns down it's going to get really ugly. We'll not only have Americans fighting Americans but there will be other interests that want to get their hands on a piece of the debris as well. I'm not so sure if those who are looking at this scenario (and they're on both sides of the aisle) have a really good idea of what a meltdown would be like.

An avid student of history, I'm very familiar with the idea and even knowing it could (and probably will) turn into an absolute shitstorm that will destroy my very way of life...I'm finding myself more and more ok with that every day.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

On the normal course of things, I favor a political process that is stable and runs relatively well. Our system isnt pefect, but it's what we have and we need to work with it rather than spending our days fantasizing about what could be.

I'm a Socialist and I believe Socialist reform can and should be brought in democratically, at the voting booth, rather than at the head of a revolution.

But lately with the debt celing talks and the political climate...I'm starting to pick up this unholy desire to cheer when I hear we're one day closer to a true financial meltdown.

I'm starting to enjoy the chaos and looking forward to the possible self-destruction of our political system. I'm not an Anarchist by any measure, but when I see people who seem to be doing their damnedest to do NOTHING helpful, I just want to see the system that supports it correct that somehow but it doesnt. I see people doing their utmost to sabotage other people based purely on politics and spitting on others who attempt to compromise.

More and more I just want to tear the entire thing down and start over again, thinking "This time we'll get it right, this time things will be better." But I know that's been said before and ended far worse.

What do you think about this process?

Well at least you're honest about wanting America to collapse. I think most lefties want the same thing but they are too dishonest to admit it.

Just remember that if you get what you want, it might be you and your loved ones who end up starving to death or being bulldozed into a mass grave in the Kalifornia desert.

Originally Posted by hairballxavier

Well at least you're honest about wanting America to collapse. I think most lefties want the same thing but they are too dishonest to admit it.

I dont actually WANT America to collapse. I'm a Socialist because I want to build this country up to be something better. I WANT to help this country.

But...that's starting to give way to frustration and partisan comments like yours reinforce that.

Just remember that if you get what you want, it might be you and your loved ones who end up starving to death or being bulldozed into a mass grave in the Kalifornia desert.

I'm aware enough to look beyond myself and my own interests at what's better for the people in a worse off position than myself.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

On the normal course of things, I favor a political process that is stable and runs relatively well. Our system isnt pefect, but it's what we have and we need to work with it rather than spending our days fantasizing about what could be.

I'm a Socialist and I believe Socialist reform can and should be brought in democratically, at the voting booth, rather than at the head of a revolution.

But lately with the debt celing talks and the political climate...I'm starting to pick up this unholy desire to cheer when I hear we're one day closer to a true financial meltdown.

I'm starting to enjoy the chaos and looking forward to the possible self-destruction of our political system. I'm not an Anarchist by any measure, but when I see people who seem to be doing their damnedest to do NOTHING helpful, I just want to see the system that supports it correct that somehow but it doesnt. I see people doing their utmost to sabotage other people based purely on politics and spitting on others who attempt to compromise.

More and more I just want to tear the entire thing down and start over again, thinking "This time we'll get it right, this time things will be better." But I know that's been said before and ended far worse.

What do you think about this process?

Hate to put it this way, but if you try a glorious socialist revolution I'll shoot you myself. It's my stuff, not yours. Try to get me to redistribute it and I'll defend my property.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I dont actually WANT America to collapse. I'm a Socialist because I want to build this country up to be something better. I WANT to help this country.

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan

‪The Beatles - Revolution (Lyrics)‬‏ - YouTube

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I dont actually WANT America to collapse. I'm a Socialist because I want to build this country up to be something better. I WANT to help this country.

What makes you think socialism will make this country better?

I get your frustration with partisan one-upmanship, but as you said in the beginning, we should be working within the system to improve it, not (IMO) hoping it burns so we can replace it with something else.

It has been my observation that socialism only works on paper... and it's a great idea, on paper. But human nature being what it is, it has not worked so far in practice.

Originally Posted by Good1

What makes you think socialism will make this country better?

I get your frustration with partisan one-upmanship, but as you said in the beginning, we should be working within the system to improve it, not (IMO) hoping it burns so we can replace it with something else.

It has been my observation that socialism only works on paper... and it's a great idea, on paper. But human nature being what it is, it has not worked so far in practice.

But I thought us Euros were socialists. Which, in my mind, would tend to indicate socialism actually works. Unless maybe we're not socialists.

Originally Posted by AdrienXII

But I thought us Euros were socialists. Which, in my mind, would tend to indicate socialism actually works. Unless maybe we're not socialists.

Yes, you Euros are socialists, and yes it does work.
But our right wing is a touch delusional, they have to be to subscribe to their dogma, and they don't see the world objectively.

And some of them even act out on their fantasies, and the right likes violent fantasies, like that guy in Norway, and the guy in Oklahoma City, and those guys that flew the planes into the World trade Center, all right wing fanatics, doing "God's Work".....

Originally Posted by AdrienXII

But I thought us Euros were socialists. Which, in my mind, would tend to indicate socialism actually works. Unless maybe we're not socialists.

Well, not all of you.


Anyway, back to the topic, I think it is too easy and a bit naive to sit back and say that you, Hoplite, are more and more ok with the idea of this whole thing going down in flames. To me, that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of just what that would mean. You wouldn't get your socialist utopia. You would get a burntout, fragmented shell of a nation. America would be dead and gone.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I dont actually WANT America to collapse. I'm a Socialist because I want to build this country up to be something better. I WANT to help this country.

But...that's starting to give way to frustration and partisan comments like yours reinforce that.

The same can be said for those of us who see the folly of parasitically taking from the producers to support those who choose not to produce.

We "don't actually WANT America to collapse". I resist socialism "because I want to" return "this country" to when it was "something better". "I WANT to help this country".

But... it is difficult when those on the left disregard my personal property rights under the guise of making this country better.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I'm aware enough to look beyond myself and my own interests at what's better for the people in a worse off position than myself.

Giving those people a fish doesn't really improve their position in life. Not to mention, it pisses off the people who caught the fish in the first place. You need to focus on teaching them how to fish for themselves.

Originally Posted by smurf

The same can be said for those of us who see the folly of parasitically taking from the producers to support those who choose not to produce.

We "don't actually WANT America to collapse". I resist socialism "because I want to" return "this country" to when it was "something better". "I WANT to help this country".

But... it is difficult when those on the left disregard my personal property rights under the guise of making this country better.



Giving those people a fish doesn't really improve their position in life. Not to mention, it pisses off the people who caught the fish in the first place. You need to focus on teaching them how to fish for themselves.

And this kind of thinking leads one to conclude that there are people who don't deserve to eat...

Originally Posted by goober

And this kind of thinking leads one to conclude that there are people who don't deserve to eat...

I suppose it would, if one's higher reasoning skills have failed.