Thread: Hispanic Culture Should Be Invisible in the United States.

All U.S. business and government activity should be done in English otherwise I've got no boogie-man fears creeping out of Hispanic culture at large. those aiding illegal immigration and reconquista are criminals and should be treated as such.

Originally Posted by Porras

Sounds like the fault of business and government to me.



The vast majority of Mexicans have done that. Hell, when my great grandfather came here from Mexico he actually instituted a family rule that American children are not allowed to speak Spanish. Not that they grew up speaking English and Spanish, as is often the case with many other ethnicities, there was absolutely no Spanish in the home.



That's a foolish statement. I'm fairly certain most Mexicans come here for the work. If they paid taxes and didn't get any entitlements, that wouldn't change.

No, the vast majority have not. And no, not foolish, it's merely the truth that you refuse to acknowledge. Shut off the entitlements and add taxes and the flow in would drop considerably, IMO by at least half. If they had to stop using free treatment at hospital ER's as their doctors office, it would slow. If their children had to pay for college educations, it would slow.
Anyone that hasn't guzzled the PC KoolAid knows exactly why they're here and what they come for.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

All U.S. business and government activity should be done in English otherwise I've got no boogie-man fears creeping out of Hispanic culture at large. those aiding illegal immigration and reconquista are criminals and should be treated as such.

Really? Driver's License Exams only in english?
How does that make sense?

Originally Posted by chassisman

No, the vast majority have not.

Your uninformed conclusion has been noted.

And no, not foolish, it's merely the truth that you refuse to acknowledge. Shut off the entitlements and add taxes and the flow in would drop considerably, IMO by at least half. If they had to stop using free treatment at hospital ER's as their doctors office, it would slow. If their children had to pay for college educations, it would slow.

Yes. If you specifically let people know that they're not welcome here and their children will never be allowed to succeed they will go elsewhere. I must not be interested in being an American either.

Anyone that hasn't guzzled the PC KoolAid knows exactly why they're here and what they come for.

You've got to amend that to anyone that hasn't guzzled the PC KoolAid and has never had notable contact with the hispanic community. You'd still be wrong, but at least you'd be referring to the people who share your views that way.

Originally Posted by goober

Really? Driver's License Exams only in english?
How does that make sense?

Only three states allow illegals to obtain a driver's license (stupidly, IMO) so why shouldn't the exams be written in English only in places like Texas, Louisiana, California, etc.? If a person is here legally, chances are good that he's educated to read, write and speak English and on the off chance he isn't, I'm sure someone could translate. Why should the citizens of those states pay for documents to be printed in both English and Spanish, especially since one has to have the ability to read, write and speak English in order to pass the US citizenship test?

Originally Posted by Porras

If you can identify a single state that has an entirely hispanic population, to quote Orson Welles, I'll go down on you.

My comment wasn't directed towards an entirely hispanic population. I was talking about entire states that are overrun by those who refuse to "assimilate" into our culture.

So that we're clear, I am not using "assimilate" to mean they should abandon their cultural identities. As you pointed out, the China towns and the Little Italys around the country amply show citizens can celebrate their heritage with those of similar backgrounds while still assimilating (becoming part of) the American culture. Fact is, it hasn't been until comparatively recently that some of those cultural groups have been clamoring for "official documents" in their own native languages. And California, from whence I hale, is one of the worst offenders in pandering to those demands, even to the extent of insisting a Spanish Language translator sit in the classroom so little Juan or Juanita won't have to bother themselves learning English. It's madness, is all I'm saying, and as others have said, states and the Federal Government should not have to go to that expense.

Originally Posted by Porras

I think expecting Aztlan to be a influential one day is just worrying about something that will never happen.

I do tend to agree that it will never happen, but that should not dispose of a common sense approach to investigate anything of that nature we hear ... and they ARE more than a little organized. What does it hurt to be informed? After all, prior to [you-know-when] some of us might have thought terrorists commandeering 4 commercial jet liners and flying them into U.S. buildings was something that would never happen, too.

I'm not saying fly off the handle and start building fortresses and bomb shelters at every whacko you see walking down the street. But just some getting informed when you (editorial "you") hear something like that.

Originally Posted by Porras

That's just it. The one thing that has historically prevented immigrant groups from assimilating is trying to force them to do so. We can see this with the Irish of the mid 19th century, the Italians of the early 20th century, Polish, Jews, you name it. Also, with regard to calling it racist, I decided 'culturist' was a stupid word.

Now, just to clarify, we're not really talking about immigrant groups per se. What we're really talking about are illegal immigrant groups, right?

You're right, of course, "culturist" doesn't really say it... but in this case, neither did "Racist" hit the mark. It's O.K. to talk about our vexation at being over run by illegal immigrants and insisting they follow the same rules we follow: That's not racism. If we label any discussion about any minority as "racist," nothing will get accomplished because everyone will be so overly concerned about being branded.

Originally Posted by Good1

My comment wasn't directed towards an entirely hispanic population. I was talking about entire states that are overrun by those who refuse to "assimilate" into our culture.

I don't think that's really the case. You have hispanic communities in metropolitan areas, and you hispanics in a less condensed fashion in rural areas, but I don't think there's an issue of any place being 'overrun', save seasonal workers hitting farming communities.

So that we're clear, I am not using "assimilate" to mean they should abandon their cultural identities. As you pointed out, the China towns and the Little Italys around the country amply show citizens can celebrate their heritage with those of similar backgrounds while still assimilating (becoming part of) the American culture. Fact is, it hasn't been until comparatively recently that some of those cultural groups have been clamoring for "official documents" in their own native languages. And California, from whence I hale, is one of the worst offenders in pandering to those demands, even to the extent of insisting a Spanish Language translator sit in the classroom so little Juan or Juanita won't have to bother themselves learning English. It's madness, is all I'm saying, and as others have said, states and the Federal Government should not have to go to that expense.

I fully agree that a failure to be functionally literate in English is not the problem of the government. The only thing I'd suggest the government do to attend to that is provide community centers where ESL classes are taught.

I do tend to agree that it will never happen, but that should not dispose of a common sense approach to investigate anything of that nature we hear ... and they ARE more than a little organized. What does it hurt to be informed? After all, prior to [you-know-when] some of us might have thought terrorists commandeering 4 commercial jet liners and flying them into U.S. buildings was something that would never happen, too.

I'm not saying fly off the handle and start building fortresses and bomb shelters at every whacko you see walking down the street. But just some getting informed when you (editorial "you") hear something like that.

Certainly any militant groups with criminal associations should be watched, but the thread was started concerning hispanic culture overall.

Now, just to clarify, we're not really talking about immigrant groups per se. What we're really talking about are illegal immigrant groups, right?

Not from my understanding. The OP was worded as all hispanic culture should be invisible and public use of the Spanish language should be penalized.

You're right, of course, "culturist" doesn't really say it... but in this case, neither did "Racist" hit the mark. It's O.K. to talk about our vexation at being over run by illegal immigrants and insisting they follow the same rules we follow: That's not racism. If we label any discussion about any minority as "racist," nothing will get accomplished because everyone will be so overly concerned about being branded.

My argument isn't against people taking issue with illegals. It's against people taking issue with hispanics in general. You seem to be viewing the discussion through a different lense, but if you reread the OP you might see where I'm coming from with this.

Originally Posted by Porras

I don't think that's really the case. You have hispanic communities in metropolitan areas, and you hispanics in a less condensed fashion in rural areas, but I don't think there's an issue of any place being 'overrun', save seasonal workers hitting farming communities.

Have you been to Los Angeles, lately? I would call that place overrun. BUT, I guess opinions vary.

Originally Posted by Porras

I fully agree that a failure to be functionally literate in English is not the problem of the government. The only thing I'd suggest the government do to attend to that is provide community centers where ESL classes are taught.

I agree and it is being done in a lot of places already. Not only community centers, but community colleges as well.

Originally Posted by Porras

Not from my understanding. The OP was worded as all hispanic culture should be invisible and public use of the Spanish language should be penalized.

O.K., I missed that part. My regrets: I do not agree with penalizing anyone just SPEAKING Spanish. I love the language and speak it almost fluently. I really enjoy speaking with others who can understand me. I also wonder about the exception of those from Spain: THAT part doesn't even make sense.

Originally Posted by Porras

My argument isn't against people taking issue with illegals. It's against people taking issue with hispanics in general. You seem to be viewing the discussion through a different lense, but if you reread the OP you might see where I'm coming from with this.

Yeah, you're right. There's more than just a cultural issue going on there. I stand corrected. When I was running some restaurants in Southern California, I would hire 10 or 15 hispanics to every white boy I hired. The white boys would make sure I knew the days they could not work and that they must have Prom or Homecoming (or even Trick-or-Treat) off, during the interview; hispanics only wanted to know what I needed them to do and how many hours they could do it. White boys called in sick a few minutes before their shift (if they called in at all), hispanics sent someone in their place that was wholly qualified to do the job. Every hispanice (and everyone else) had appropriate documentation supporting their right to live and work in the United States.

Originally Posted by chassisman

Anyone that hasn't guzzled the PC KoolAid knows exactly why they're here and what they come for.

Whoa, Chassisman, way to poison the well, man!

But you're wrong.

I know a lot of hispanics and amongst them, I know a lot of Mexicans (or former mexicans)... I've also had many dozens of hispanics and Mexicans working for me. Every last one of them paid taxes through payroll deductions because I saw their stubs. Dont' get me wrong, there are a lot of illegals here who DO try to get away with what they can get away with: That's why we should be about strengthening (and then enforcing) existing laws... but you cannot castigate all Mexicans like that because the only allness that is true is "all allnesses are wrong."

Originally Posted by Good1

Have you been to Los Angeles, lately? I would call that place overrun. BUT, I guess opinions vary.

Passed through on my way to Tijuana 15 years ago. I guess I'm going to have to go with no. The only cities I've been to in recent years are Chicago, Charlotte, and Denver. I'd say LA is special circumstances considering proximity.

Originally Posted by Porras

Sounds like the fault of business and government to me.

That's a specious statement, however. To me, that implies that it is not the fault of the Mexicans (or "Mexican-Americans," but never just "Americans"), right? (Or whatever group you want to plug in there.) And to a certain extent, you're right. Really, it's the fault of liberals. See, I agree that we should not force assimilation, but neither should we accomodate non-assimilation. But liberals decided we need to do the latter and actually facilitate non-assimilation in the name of multi-culturalism. However, is that to say that the minority groups had no fault in the matter? Let's not be silly here. There's a reason you go to Miami or New York City or areas in southern California and you basically must know how to speak Spanish, laughably.

Originally Posted by Porras

The vast majority of Mexicans have done that. Hell, when my great grandfather came here from Mexico he actually instituted a family rule that American children are not allowed to speak Spanish. Not that they grew up speaking English and Spanish, as is often the case with many other ethnicities, there was absolutely no Spanish in the home.

Your great grandfather sounds like the kind of person we want here. But here's the question: if the "vast majority" of Mexicans have assimilated, why is this an issue? You see, if the vast majority of Mexicans could speak English, we wouldn't need to mandatorily print government documents in Spanish or require police officers to know how to speak Spanish in certain areas of the country or to mandate that hospitals have translators and so on. So I don't buy that the "vast majority" of Mexicans have assimilated because actions, as always, speak louder than words.

Originally Posted by C-B-M

That's a specious statement, however. To me, that implies that it is not the fault of the Mexicans (or "Mexican-Americans," but never just "Americans"), right? (Or whatever group you want to plug in there.) And to a certain extent, you're right. Really, it's the fault of liberals. See, I agree that we should not force assimilation, but neither should we accomodate non-assimilation. But liberals decided we need to do the latter and actually facilitate non-assimilation in the name of multi-culturalism. However, is that to say that the minority groups had no fault in the matter? Let's not be silly here. There's a reason you go to Miami or New York City or areas in southern California and you basically must know how to speak Spanish, laughably.

I fully agree that we shouldn't make it easier to function in America without learning English, but assimilation into American society is a process that takes time. To expect someone to get off the boat (or in this case across the border) and be fluent in English is a bit excessive.

Your great grandfather sounds like the kind of person we want here. But here's the question: if the "vast majority" of Mexicans have assimilated, why is this an issue? You see, if the vast majority of Mexicans could speak English, we wouldn't need to mandatorily print government documents in Spanish or require police officers to know how to speak Spanish in certain areas of the country or to mandate that hospitals have translators and so on. So I don't buy that the "vast majority" of Mexicans have assimilated because actions, as always, speak louder than words.

As I said, it takes time. The fact that it takes time and we have higher numbers coming from Mexico than anywhere else has led some to think we should accommodate them with more than the ESL classes I suggest, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're fighting assimilation. I've met very few from Mexico who spoke less English than I speak Spanish and the ones who couldn't speak it at all always had someone there to translate, but in my time in Northeastern Illinois, I've encountered plenty of Polish and Russian immigrants who couldn't communicate in English.

Originally Posted by goober

Really? Driver's License Exams only in english?
How does that make sense?

Makes plenty of sense to me as the traffic signs are in English.