Thread: Poor farmers can't find workers in Alabama...

Few Americans take immigrants' jobs in Ala. - US news - Life - msnbc.com

Potato farmer Keith Smith saw most of his Hispanic workers leave after Alabama's tough immigration law took effect, so he hired Americans. It hasn't worked out: They show up late, work slower than seasoned farm hands and are ready to call it a day after lunch or by midafternoon. Some quit after a single day.

In south Georgia, Connie Horner has heard just about every reason unemployed Americans don't want to work on her blueberry farm. It's hot, the hours are long, the pay isn't enough and it's just plain hard.

"You can't find legal workers," Horner said. "Basically they last a day or two, literally."

"People in Alabama are not going to do this," said Smith, who grows about 75 acres of tomatoes in the northeast part of the state. "They'd work one day and then just wouldn't show up again."

At his farm, field workers get $2 for every 25-pound box of tomatoes they fill. Skilled pickers can make anywhere from $200 to $300 a day, he said.

Unskilled workers make much less.

A crew of four Hispanics can earn about $150 each by picking 250-300 boxes of tomatoes in a day, said Jerry Spencer, of Grow Alabama, which purchases and sells locally owned produce. A crew of 25 Americans recently picked 200 boxes — giving them each $24 for the day.

This is not the whole story. What these "poor" farmers do not tell you is the extreme long hours, lack of benefits, no over time, poor work conditions, no breaks, and harsh treatment of their workers. No American would put up with that. If those farmers actually paid a decent hourly wage like 10 bucks per hour and added overtime to that, they would not have a hard time hiring and retaining people even without a benefits package.

Fucking pathetic. This country is going to shit....poor fucking farmers...what's next the struggling millionaire who had to painfully give up his summer home in the Hamptons because of cutbacks?

Having actually worked as a produce picker, you sure as SHIT do not make anything close to $2-300 a day.

You are TOLD you can make that, but there's always a reason you dont get it.

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

Few Americans take immigrants' jobs in Ala. - US news - Life - msnbc.com







This is not the whole story. What these "poor" farmers do not tell you is the extreme long hours, lack of benefits, no over time, poor work conditions, no breaks, and harsh treatment of their workers. No American would put up with that. If those farmers actually paid a decent hourly wage like 10 bucks per hour and added overtime to that, they would not have a hard time hiring and retaining people even without a benefits package.

Fucking pathetic. This country is going to shit....poor fucking farmers...what's next the struggling millionaire who had to painfully give up his summer home in the Hamptons because of cutbacks?

We knew this would happen ... yet work visas have been obtained for this type of labor for years. I suspect those who slacked and used illegal immigrants will find themselves short on labor. Maine has used work visa's for years be it chicken farms, apple picking, or blueberries. Also food service. Those who use the system will be fine.

Originally Posted by michael h

We knew this would happen ... yet work visas have been obtained for this type of labor for years. I suspect those who slacked and used illegal immigrants will find themselves short on labor. Maine has used work visa's for years be it chicken farms, apple picking, or blueberries. Also food service. Those who use the system will be fine.

You're going to pay for at the grocery store. You may feel better about using documented immigrants or American citizens to do your harvesting for you, but it WILL drive the up cost of the things you eat. That may not sound like a big deal if you think it's just produce, but consider how much wheat and corn we use in our diets and consider that that all has to be harvested, processed, packaged, and shipped by someone. Mechanization has taken a lot of workers off the fields but you still need field hands and often those field hands are undocumented immigrants.

If you make farmers pay more money for labor, they will charge you more for what they sell and raise the cost of food.

It's a trade-off.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

You're going to pay for at the grocery store. You may feel better about using documented immigrants or American citizens to do your harvesting for you, but it WILL drive the up cost of the things you eat. That may not sound like a big deal if you think it's just produce, but consider how much wheat and corn we use in our diets and consider that that all has to be harvested, processed, packaged, and shipped by someone. Mechanization has taken a lot of workers off the fields but you still need field hands and often those field hands are undocumented immigrants.

If you make farmers pay more money for labor, they will charge you more for what they sell and raise the cost of food.

It's a trade-off.

True that ... yet the documented workers in Maine receive no great compensation. Yet I'm sure costs will increase ... I'll take them ... much as I would for and American made television or computer. Something gained , something lost.

Originally Posted by michael h

True that ... yet the documented workers in Maine receive no great compensation. Yet I'm sure costs will increase ... I'll take them ... much as I would for and American made television or computer. Something gained , something lost.

They received more compensation than your average undocumented picker. Those guys were lucky to walk with $50 a day sometimes.

You may be willing to pay more for American made products but most people are not able or willing, especially in this modern economy.

Originally Posted by michael h

We knew this would happen ... yet work visas have been obtained for this type of labor for years. I suspect those who slacked and used illegal immigrants will find themselves short on labor. Maine has used work visa's for years be it chicken farms, apple picking, or blueberries. Also food service. Those who use the system will be fine.

LOL. These kind of visas:

Hershey Labor Controversy Investigated By Legal Experts

The students had come to the U.S. on J-1 visas for the summer to experience America and improve their English. Instead, they claim they ended up working stressful full-time jobs for a sub-contractor at the plant in exchange for meager pay. Several of the students said they each paid between $3,000 and $6,000 to come to the U.S., and that after their housing costs were deducted they were taking home between $40 and $140 per week.

An investigation by the Associated Press last year found that the J-1 program had little oversight and that disappointed students often wound up in low-paying jobs under harsh conditions. Some even worked in strip clubs or took home $1 per hour.

In video interviews, students said that they suffered back and arm pain due to the stressful and repetitive nature of the work packaging chocolates and that their pay worked out to $5 per hour. "It was horrible," one student said. They also claimed that when they complained about the conditions, they were threatened with deportation.

Sad sad state of affairs.

On a side note, I just found out that my co-workers lost their jobs to.....H1-b contractors...similar to the J1s. The company thought it better to import the slave labor. Rumor has it that they are getting paid less than 20k to do the job I was paid 70k to do. How do I compete?

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

On a side note, I just found out that my co-workers lost their jobs to.....H1-b contractors...similar to the J1s. The company thought it better to import the slave labor. Rumor has it that they are getting paid less than 20k to do the job I was paid 70k to do. How do I compete?

Originally Posted by TomBlaze

LOL. These kind of visas:

Hershey Labor Controversy Investigated By Legal Experts







Sad sad state of affairs.

On a side note, I just found out that my co-workers lost their jobs to.....H1-b contractors...similar to the J1s. The company thought it better to import the slave labor. Rumor has it that they are getting paid less than 20k to do the job I was paid 70k to do. How do I compete?

If you follow H1B stories you must be aware of 21 Indian programmers replacing 17 American programmers(wages similar to your quote) at a company in Washington (Musta been a shortage of programmers - sarcasm). There were shortfalls in compensation at some of our chicken farms also (reported). Lifes not perfect and compensation is better for properly documented workers. I was already aware of the chocolate case.

Shits happening all over the country Tom and the best you can do is empathize with them ... cuzz shit won't change till it gets worse.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Time will tell. A 9 9 9 tax combined with a cutback in social services ... voila.

Originally Posted by michael h

Time will tell. A 9 9 9 tax combined with a cutback in social services ... voila.

Except the 999 plan is not realistic (or even really that detailed).

It's also pretty unpopular with people on both sides of the aisle who have sat down and done the math. To be fair, that tends to be the case with any new tax scheme proposal; they all sound awesome...until you actually do the calculations and often times it means higher taxes for everybody when the new scheme was meant to REDUCE taxes.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Except the 999 plan is not realistic (or even really that detailed).

It's also pretty unpopular with people on both sides of the aisle who have sat down and done the math. To be fair, that tends to be the case with any new tax scheme proposal; they all sound awesome...until you actually do the calculations and often times it means higher taxes for everybody when the new scheme was meant to REDUCE taxes.

Exactly my point ... hardship, more hardship.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I don't see how burning down your house will help him. But it's cool of you to offer him the outlet.

Prisoners can pick crops right? Problem solved.
Heck they can even use farm labor as a a form of re-education for wrong minded Americans.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

If you make farmers pay more money for labor, they will charge you more for what they sell and raise the cost of food.

It's a trade-off.

Mr. Smith says he pays his laborers $2.00 for every 25 pound box they pack. So Mr. Smith is paying his field hands 8 cents a pound.

Of course prices of produce varies widely year to year and season to season, but for the sake of argument, let's say at the grocery store a pound of tomatoes is going for about $2/pound.

If Mr. Smith doubled the pay of his field workers and 100% of that cost was passed down to the end consumer, then tomatoes would go from $2.00 to 2.08 per pound.

Let's say the consumer eats 20 pounds of tomatoes per year.

That works out to a whopping $1.60 extra per year due to Mr. Smith's extra labor costs!