Thread: The no B.S. solution to Illegal immigration.

Not bad. ...You will be infered as a racist of course but that just cause liberals hate being shown they are wrong all the time.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Not bad. ...You will be infered as a racist of course but that just cause liberals hate being shown they are wrong all the time.

Yeah, but I will let them argue that point with my legal-immigrant wife who is Filipino.

And there is also the fact that my post makes no reference to race at all.. only to Illegal Aliens. To those who call THAT racist I simply ask... to what race am I supposedly racist against? If they are implying that opposing illegal aliens means I am anti-hispanic or something.. then it is THEY who are proving themselves to be racist by promoting a racist stereotype that illegal alien, and hispanic, are somehow synonymous.

Originally Posted by Pax Americana

States are trying to pass various laws that could be said merely to augment federal law, and in a bizarre twist the feds are actually suing the states for doing so claiming that since Immigration is under the jurisdiction of the Federal Govt, then it is somehow illegal for states to get involved. Well, last time I checked, it was against federal law to rob a federally insured bank, or to commit kidnapping... so who is going to suggest that state and local police cannot get involved in those cases when they see it happening?


Anyway, this proposal for dealing with illegals sidesteps this entire racial issue, since it does not approach the problem from the angle of enforcing immigration law at all. Further, it does not target illegal aliens in any manner, so every accusation of racism, or racial profiling, etc.. become irrelevant.

The solution is a simple three step process...


1st is easiest... simply cut off all public assistance. End all food stamps, welfare, etc.. to illegal aliens.


2nd is to impose a severe fine upon any who employ an illegal alien, knowingly or unknowingly, no excuses accepted. A fine of say $10,000 per day, per illegal alien employed means if someone hires an illegal for a single day, that is a 10K fine... but if someone employs 10 for 10 days, that is a million dollar fine. That sort of penalty will even get Tyson's attention.


The 3rd and final step is to publically offer half of any fine imposed will be rewarded to whoever makes the initial report that leads to that prosecution... even if the person who made the report were an illegal alien themselves. This will have several benefits. First, illegals themselves will be turned into defacto enforcement officers as they will be the ones who turn in their boss. Who would hire a single person for a day if at the end of that day that person could drop a dime on you and walk off with 5 grand? And in places where numerous illegals are employed, reports will come in fast as each illegal is wanting to assure HIS is the first report.


While this will provide a short-term boon to a handful of illegals, the vast majority will benefit in no way, and will simply discover themselves unable to get a job doing anything. When they cannot find work, and receive zero public assistance, then deportation will prove unnecessary because feet work just as well facing south as facing north... and they will deport themselves. Even those who had short term gains by turning in employers will find that is the ONLY money they can make, and they too will have to leave eventually.


This proposal will deal with the problem of illegal immigrants while not resulting in the arrest or deportation of a single illegal alien. Since setting employment regulations is well within a States authority, it cannot be argued that they are interfering in the operations of ICE in any way, nor overloading the system with tons of arrested aliens. And as already stated, all racial profiling questions become irrelevant. Further, the entire system can be implemented at virtually zero expense to the taxpayers, and can likely be supported thru fines that are imposed upon illegal employers.

At this point it is unlikely that any wall is needed, and probably current Border Patrol resources could handle the tiny number of illegal crossers... smugglers, etc... who are left.

An excellent non-ideological, logical posting.

That sounds like a good idea except for two possible problems;a. no illegal alien, by himself, gets welfare now. It's simply against the law. The only way an illegal picks up welfare is by including himself in a legitimate family, and the worker is supposed to check, but usually doesn't. There's no penalty for not and you risk complaints if you do.
b. We'd probably have to put away a substantial percentage of our rich people, and then who would give us all jobs, as they are the only ones who hire people, according to most of this board. Then again, the fines might pay off the national debt, so I dunno :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Pax Americana

Yeah, but I will let them argue that point with my legal-immigrant wife who is Filipino.

And there is also the fact that my post makes no reference to race at all.. only to Illegal Aliens. To those who call THAT racist I simply ask... to what race am I supposedly racist against? If they are implying that opposing illegal aliens means I am anti-hispanic or something.. then it is THEY who are proving themselves to be racist by promoting a racist stereotype that illegal alien, and hispanic, are somehow synonymous.

A substantial number of illegal aliens are Irish.

Originally Posted by Pax Americana

States are trying to pass various laws that could be said merely to augment federal law, and in a bizarre twist the feds are actually suing the states for doing so claiming that since Immigration is under the jurisdiction of the Federal Govt, then it is somehow illegal for states to get involved. Well, last time I checked, it was against federal law to rob a federally insured bank, or to commit kidnapping... so who is going to suggest that state and local police cannot get involved in those cases when they see it happening?


Anyway, this proposal for dealing with illegals sidesteps this entire racial issue, since it does not approach the problem from the angle of enforcing immigration law at all. Further, it does not target illegal aliens in any manner, so every accusation of racism, or racial profiling, etc.. become irrelevant.

The solution is a simple three step process...


1st is easiest... simply cut off all public assistance. End all food stamps, welfare, etc.. to illegal aliens.


2nd is to impose a severe fine upon any who employ an illegal alien, knowingly or unknowingly, no excuses accepted. A fine of say $10,000 per day, per illegal alien employed means if someone hires an illegal for a single day, that is a 10K fine... but if someone employs 10 for 10 days, that is a million dollar fine. That sort of penalty will even get Tyson's attention.


The 3rd and final step is to publically offer half of any fine imposed will be rewarded to whoever makes the initial report that leads to that prosecution... even if the person who made the report were an illegal alien themselves. This will have several benefits. First, illegals themselves will be turned into defacto enforcement officers as they will be the ones who turn in their boss. Who would hire a single person for a day if at the end of that day that person could drop a dime on you and walk off with 5 grand? And in places where numerous illegals are employed, reports will come in fast as each illegal is wanting to assure HIS is the first report.


While this will provide a short-term boon to a handful of illegals, the vast majority will benefit in no way, and will simply discover themselves unable to get a job doing anything. When they cannot find work, and receive zero public assistance, then deportation will prove unnecessary because feet work just as well facing south as facing north... and they will deport themselves. Even those who had short term gains by turning in employers will find that is the ONLY money they can make, and they too will have to leave eventually.


This proposal will deal with the problem of illegal immigrants while not resulting in the arrest or deportation of a single illegal alien. Since setting employment regulations is well within a States authority, it cannot be argued that they are interfering in the operations of ICE in any way, nor overloading the system with tons of arrested aliens. And as already stated, all racial profiling questions become irrelevant. Further, the entire system can be implemented at virtually zero expense to the taxpayers, and can likely be supported thru fines that are imposed upon illegal employers.

At this point it is unlikely that any wall is needed, and probably current Border Patrol resources could handle the tiny number of illegal crossers... smugglers, etc... who are left.

This really would not be fair to our businessmen who would be denied the cheaper labor costs that illegals bring. No, to be fair about this, congress needs to do exactly what they did when our consumer goods manufacturing starting leaving in droves for communist china. Those corporations got tax breaks for shipping away american middle class jobs. It would only be fair to our small businesses to give them tax breaks too for hiring and working illegals. For each american you fire and hire an illegal, you get a 5000 dollar write on your tax return.

Employers are very important to our economy, and you need to give them more freedom and liberty, because america is all about freedom and liberty. Now, for you twinkies out there who think this would hurt american workers, well fuck them lazy ass, no account bums who expect to feed their family on what they are paid. Entitiled sons of bitches is what they are! They have some nerve wanting a living wage when the illegal mexicans can make it on what they get paid. American can live 3 to 4 families per home. And by god they can live off of beans, salsa and tortilla chips too.

Our american workers just got spoiled is all. Being paid lower middle class wages for unskilled labor in a consumer goods manufacturing plant was wrong from the get-go! And them damn unions that got those living wages for work were nothing more than communists! And america hates communists and we won't have a thing to do with 'em either. The day america helps out communists will be a cold day in hell....

No sir, stopping illegals from working here, helping out our business greatly just will not fly!! Anyone who wants to stop our business from hiring them is a fucking racist!! And if you want to stop em, you apparently love these communist driven unions. You wanta kill what is left of the unions? Easy, give our businesses tax deductions for hiring illegals. Then ship american manufacturing jobs to a communist state, just to rub the american workers nose in comime feces. Communist china does not have unions that help those coolies get living wages, its just western unions that are the real communists. Chinese communism is good, american union communism is the worst sort of communism.


I cannot believe you actually want to punish our businesses for breaking our federal laws!!! I think you are a lefty liberal who hates our businesses, because you are green with envy of these businessmen. Why don't you get off your lazy ass and become a businessman too? Then you can hire illegals, or move your business to communist china and max out your profits. That is what freedom and liberty is all about for god's sake!! What??? You say giving our businesses more freedom destroys our middle class, our working americans? Well sir, that is the price of freedom! Anyways, if these working americans want to make a living wage, let em open their own business, then they too can live in big houses and drive expensive cars. If they can't pull it off, that means they are inferiour humans, and do not deserve their next meal. With more freedom and liberty comes the chance that you will fail, but if you get lucky, you will be in high cotton. If not, well, you are not valuable enough to this society to warrant any help whatsoever. Only the strong, the smart, the lucky survive. And that is all that should survive. Anyways this would be good for america, and we could weed out the weaker, while teaching a lesson in morality. We need to get back to where it is every man for himself, and women and children NEVER go first...such silliness that comes from those tree hugging socialistic communist liberals. But what else can you expect from 'em? They actually believe that Christ said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to make it into heaven! How absurd is that? The rich are rich because God loves the rich more, because they ain't lazy. God made 'em rich. And that shit about Christ saying the meek shall inherit the earth is a bullshit lie, told by a fucking liberal, in an occupied Israel a long time ago. And that tripe about Christ whip[ing the crap out of the money changers in the Temple was a lie too! Hell, he didn't whip em, he shook their hands and advised them to charge more for converting foreign currency into the right currency.

Christ said we would always have the poor, and the reason we have so many poor is so other people can hire em for a few cents, and get rich as hell off of the work of these scumbags. And that is the final reason why we should not get bent out of shape for these illegals being hired by our businesses. God makes the poor folks so the motivated people can get rich off of 'em. This is God's plan and you better leave it the fuck alone! If God wanted to help the poor, he would come down and do it Himself! Since the world is filled with po folks, he apparently don't give a shit, and why should I? And if God did not want those illegals to come here to take american jobs, He would stop it Himself. And he ain't doing shit about it!

Blue,
Mathematical formula...
Conservative = Fiscal Atheist + Religous Anti-Gay Marriage + Religous Anti-Abortion.

At least they can be consistent

Why not just enforce existing laws rather than ignoring them and granting waivers.

Just one question. Who is ready to pay higher prices for all sorts of low labour currently done by illegal immigrants?

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Just one question. Who is ready to pay higher prices for all sorts of low labour currently done by illegal immigrants?

Not enough of us is the answer. We still send our money willingly to communist china, and our corporations over there, even as we destroy our own prosperity in the process. We only change our minds when our own job is lost to illegals or communists. Typical self centered behavior that can always be depended upon! But that is where gov't has a role of stepping in to keep us from destroying the nation because of individual self centeredness. We have to be saved from ourselves, and we sure as hell won't do it, as we can save a buck or two. The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, but ourselves....

Same goes for groups of humans called corporations, that effect the same self centeredness as the individual. There has to be an intelligent reasonable mind somewhere, guiding us so we do not fuck up our own nest, as we are apt to do when it comes to money. Our gov't helped us out until the past few decades when they decided for more freedom and liberty and turned us loose. Idiots should never be given the freedom to destroy ones nation, one's society. You gotta know where to draw the line. Absolute freedom does not exist, yet we have made an ideal of it. In chasing an ideal we destroy. A reality check is in order and fast!

First we bring back the corps, allow Trickle Down to occur and THEN hwe address the illegals issue.

NO! NO! My PORTFOLIO!

Back when most average americans did not have little portfolios, wall st was more careful with other people's money! Afterall, they were investing the money of the rich. Once they got millions middle class folks to invest, they went hog ass wild, and were no longer as careful with other people's money.

The only investments made by average folks were in war bonds, and they did it because it was their patriotic duty, as well as wanting to insure their sons and daughters had the good supplies to fight the Axis.

I think ALL americans being forced into working together during ww2 played a large role in the prosperity of Americans after ww2. I really do. We worked together for a greater good, a common goal, an economic goal. Then as time passed, as we tend to do, we drifted towards being more self interested. When these folks got into power, the days of working together was doomed. Now it's every man for himself, and fuck the guy next door. Women and children last, if they stand in your way. I think inwardly this defines this nation today, and the inward is of course the outward.

We are in all sorts of crisis. And I think it is rooted in the individualism pushed by the conservatives which is another word today for self involvement and to hell with others. A lone wolf consciousness believed in by the cons, and they propagandize this on their news outlets.

The only thing that will save us, our middle, our prosperity is a world war, that we win. That will give us a half century of working together, having a common goal, and then human nature will kick in again and the cycle begins anew. While this is pessimistic, I feel it is our reality. The con ideology of the lone wolf, will not win wars. It takes the democratic liberal idea of working together to accomplish something big and worthy. This is anathema to the cons, and their great flaw in governing, in ideology. We could only create history's largest middle class while we relegated them to the minority. I think this is a painful fact for them, so they ignore it. Sometimes belligerantly.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

First we bring back the corps, allow Trickle Down to occur and THEN hwe address the illegals issue.

NO! NO! My PORTFOLIO!

LOL.

Since I believe trickle down is a con game, and they know its a con game, the cons, I would do it differently.

I would force american corporations back to america, and use them to build up and substain our middle class again. A large middle class makes for a stronger nation than one with two classes. The larger the middle, the healthier, the stronger the nation. And we would still have the upper class, the rich folks, and we need them. They would only build homes that cost 10s of millions instead of hundreds of millions is all. But given human nature, if you allow a few to be much better off relative to the middle, the rich will settle for that. They won't like it of course because they have experienced the times of off shoring that made them vulgarly rich, yet they will continue to work to create their own wealth. The cons think if they cannot max out their profits by any means, they will simply stop creating wealth. That is delusional and does not take into account human nature and wealth. Like many of these con ideas, they dwell in delusions, and do not understand human nature. But why should they? Few took the liberal arts courses, the humanities in college. They limited their own education and opted for a one dimensional education.

Hell, once we forced back our corporations, we could open the doors to immigation to fill some of those manufacturing jobs! China has growed so much, they are running out of workers! But few with any brains want to immigrate to communist china, and that would not be the case here.

Trade is important, once you reach a certain point, but we have had times in the US when we were expanding infastructure and creating a larger middle class where trade was not as important. Trade in a modern industialized nation with a huge middle class has more importance in maintaining the peace, by trade. Not for any over riding economic reason. If one runs a perpetual trade deficet as we do, that trade is hurting rather than helping, america as a whole. When you run perpetual trade deficets, you can bet your ass that a select few are making a killing off of their exports, while the rest are suffering from the imports. So we run trade deficets because a few monied interests want to continue exporting for their own benefit, even if it hurts the nation.

You only win as a nation when you run surpluses in trade. Yet all nations cannot run trade surpluses!! That is why those nations tend to cheat on agreements and put into place non tarrif trade barriers to bring the trade deficets down and in line. And america had such a huge consumer market and middle class at one time that we allowed the cheating, because we were doing fine servicing our own consumer markets, and employing our own people.

The basic ways to be successful as an economy is not a complex thing. It is basic common sense. It is only complicated beyond understanding when there are special interests involved that are only wanting to advance their own self interests. Fuck the nation, as their own interest is more important than the nation, to them. This is where our gov't by and for the people used to step in. Cons call it marxism, socialism, communism, or perhaps they will invent a new ism for propaganga reasons. I call it planning, and taking into consideration the nation as a whole, instead of concentrating on giving the few what they want. Because what the few have wanted and got, has not been good for america. The gov't is not doing its job and the cons say the gov't should stay out of it. Well, the gov't got out of aiding the growth of the middle and now the middle is shrinking and the poor are growing. If this isn't insanity, what is?

I wish I could say the modern dems would help the middle again, the average guy, but I don't see it. I think they had to join in with the special interests in order to get enough money for elections so they could at least stay in DC, and keep their own positions of power and status. The cash cows are feeding both sides, and the middle suffers. That is the only logical reason the dems no longer represent the american worker, the middle class in maintaining their middle class jobs. The dems are no longer the ones that fight for average americans, or what FDR called common americans. The only thing I can see the dems doing is trying to provide the social safety nets to help out the very folks they sold out to big business and banksters, when they voted along with the pubs on important issues that effect the middle in bad ways. The Pubs don't give a shit about these average people, so they want to balance the budget by getting rid of many of the nets, and lowering the taxes on the very people who don't need lower taxes.

The only thing I can give the dems kudos on is that initially they voted against free trade, because they had enough common sense to know that ross perot was right about middle class jobs being sucked from america. And I give the kudos that it was not them, but special interests and repubs that concocted free trade for the purpose of off shoring to boost profits. But it makes little difference now, because the dems changed, and joined in on this treason upon the average american. Money talks like never before these days, and the S.C. added to the mess when they judged corporations were people with free speech, and money equals free speech. But if you allow a few folks a bullhorn, where the majority do not have a bullhorn because they cannot afford em, suddenly things are no longer equal, and the few have a louder voice to be heard than the majority. Or in other words money buys influence, and influence can win elections. That is not fairness and it certainly is not equality.