Thread: Facebook's Saverin...'American Hero' or Scumbag?

Originally Posted by thanatos144

this just shows that liberals dont think money belongs to those that earn it.

Nor does it show that the market and its producers are owned by conservatives.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

No, it's not. I never said he didn't realize it. I said that it might not have bothered hi as much because it didn't effect him. Oh, and yes, you are forced to pay taxes. Stop paying your taxes and let me know how it works out for you.

You are indeed forced to pay taxes if you are an American citizen. But nobody forced him to be an American citizen, did they? He chose to be one. Meaning he chose to pay American taxes.

And I understand your point that "it might not have bothered him much because it didn't effect him," but if true (and who knows?), you have simply described a selfish jerk who doesn't care about perceived injustice when it affects others; only when it affected him. Up until then, according to your theory, he was perfectly content to let the wealthy pay higher tax rates than he did. He has no principled objection to progressive taxation. He just decided that the rules he was perfectly fine with when applied to shouldn't be applied to... so he took his ball and went to Singapore... leaving the rest of us to make up the difference with our tax dollars.

No, it makes liberals that support a progressive taxation system seem like selfish thieves.

Well, I obviously disagree, but in the case of Saverin, it is not a relevant argument, because he chose to be a part of this system.

Originally Posted by lutherf

As I've said before, Dis, we don't tax based on wealth. We tax based on earnings.

Some people take their earnings and piss it away while others use their earnings to accumulate wealth which, when disposed of, becomes earnings.

I never said we did tax on wealth. If it were practical to do, it would be a much fairer system though. Since we DO know the wealth numbers for the top 1%, its just another way so see how they aren't being unfairly taxed.

Some people use their wealth to create more wealth, barely lifting a finger in the process. Some people scrape together their earnings for long enough (after paying for food, clothing, and shelter) to invest in something which winds up all fucked up because of the malfeasance of the banks, and then has to watch while the banks get bailed out with his tax money, foreclose on his investment while they borrow money at 0% interest, and he's left holding an empty bag labelled "American Dream". Woohoo, economic justice American-style. The banks are too big to fail but not the little guy.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

You are indeed forced to pay taxes if you are an American citizen. But nobody forced him to be an American citizen, did they? He chose to be one. Meaning he chose to pay American taxes.

And I understand your point that "it might not have bothered him much because it didn't effect him," but if true (and who knows?), you have simply described a selfish jerk who doesn't care about perceived injustice when it affects others; only when it affected him. Up until then, according to your theory, he was perfectly content to let the wealthy pay higher tax rates than he did. He has no principled objection to progressive taxation. He just decided that the rules he was perfectly fine with when applied to shouldn't be applied to... so he took his ball and went to Singapore... leaving the rest of us to make up the difference with our tax dollars.

Well, I obviously disagree, but in the case of Saverin, it is not a relevant argument, because he chose to be a part of this system.

ahoy AdamKadmon,

this be the point i was drivin' at, me friend, 'specially the bolded.

the folks that hath benefitted the most from the arrangement provide the most help in keepin' the ship afloat, as decreed by tax policy that the american public hath voted into place. Mr. Saverin gamed the system spectacularly (to the detriment 'o this nation), he's not the first and won't be the last, but he be the topic 'o this thread.

i really don't understand how folks thinks this fella ought to be celebrated.

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Horrible analogy or are you suggesting that ordinary "mateys" stay in-line or be excuted.
Wait...China's already doing that!

It's an exact analogy. The people that want to go after expats are pro-economic slavery. If someone wants to leave, fine. If we want to ding them then we can do it if they try to apply for citizenship again and I'd have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

I know plenty of millionaires who pay their taxes yet still live in mansions, have SUVs and visit France 3 times a year.
Apparentley, one must become a billionaire to start crying foul.

Ummm....so? I fail to see how this is even related to the post you quoted.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

You are indeed forced to pay taxes if you are an American citizen. But nobody forced him to be an American citizen, did they? He chose to be one. Meaning he chose to pay American taxes.

Yes, and while he was an American citizen he paid his taxes. What's your problem?

And I understand your point that "it might not have bothered him much because it didn't effect him," but if true (and who knows?), you have simply described a selfish jerk who doesn't care about perceived injustice when it affects others; only when it affected him. Up until then, according to your theory, he was perfectly content to let the wealthy pay higher tax rates than he did. He has no principled objection to progressive taxation. He just decided that the rules he was perfectly fine with when applied to shouldn't be applied to... so he took his ball and went to Singapore... leaving the rest of us to make up the difference with our tax dollars.

Good, you just described most liberals. They don't care about progressive tax rates because it doesn't effect most of them.

Well, I obviously disagree, but in the case of Saverin, it is not a relevant argument, because he chose to be a part of this system.

Yes, and he paid his dues while he was part of the system. You want life-time economic slavery. I believe in freedom.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy AdamKadmon,

this be the point i was drivin' at, me friend, 'specially the bolded.

the folks that hath benefitted the most from the arrangement provide the most help in keepin' the ship afloat, as decreed by tax policy that the american public hath voted into place. Mr. Saverin gamed the system spectacularly (to the detriment 'o this nation), he's not the first and won't be the last, but he be the topic 'o this thread.

i really don't understand how folks thinks this fella ought to be celebrated.

- MeadHallPirate

I don't think he should be celebrated and I repeatedly said this. I also think this is a non-issue. But, humor me....

Please detail exactly how this situation gamed the system and was a detriment to our nation. I want exact details and not inarticulate general statements about "gamed the system" or "screwing us", ect.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

The money not requried for infrastructure belongs to those that earn it.
Otherwise, leave the US after high school.

The money I earn is mine....

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Cool, I don't even listen to Hannity or any other "right wingnut talk radio" (except a little only because NPR out here doesn't air during the day). Also, you're talking about a completely different issue. I actually agree with you that we need to figure out ways to bring production back to the US and keep it here. That's an entirely different issue than people suffering aneurysms because someone decides to move out of the country and they feel entitled to a percentage of that person's wealth for the rest of their lives. Yes, it is slobbering over other people's money.

I am not slobbering over his money. I am bothered that his mindset is destroying this nation, and its a destructive trend. We no longer think in terms of how to make this nation greater, stronger, healthier. Instead we now think it terms of how can I, the individual, work the system to gain great wealth, and then tell the nation that provided this opportunity to go fuck herself.

This mindset sent 55,000 consumer goods factories to a communist state, who is not an ally. Which caused a lot of problems for america. We have moved from a nation that worked to make itself healthier, to one that is driven by the greed of a few people trying to get richer. This mindset is destructive of the US. Only a con, who confuses "individualism" with extreme selfishness, could see this as a good trend, a desirable trend.

If once objects to this mindset, you guys call it envy, or slobbering over money. Which is right off of right wing radio or hannity, whether you listen to that or not.

But I get it, I understand. America is no longer important to you guys. Individuals and their pursuit of greater and greater wealth, even at the demise of this nation, trumps america. In fact, it trumps everything. It has become the highest good. You guys don't listen to your own founder of the religion you supposedly believe in.You cannot serve God and mammon. Yet you fully support, and even worship these people who are only concerned with mammon.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

I don't think he should be celebrated and I repeatedly said this. I also think this is a non-issue. But, humor me....

Please detail exactly how this situation gamed the system and was a detriment to our nation. I want exact details and not inarticulate general statements about "gamed the system" or "screwing us", ect.

ahoy Fishjoel,

i've explained best i can, matey (a few times). i guess we just agree to disagree on the matter.

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by thanatos144

The money I earn is mine....

Then do the right thing, that is consistent with this belief and keep your auto off of taxpayer built roads. Afterall, JUST your taxes alone did not pay for those roads. What? It's ok for you to benefit from the taxes of others? To use other taxpayers for your own convenience? If that is your money, you earned it, this attitude should be extended in principle to what other's money has built, you should keep your ass off it it. If you are not willing to do this, then your principles are no different from welfare queens. You TAKE back much more than you contributed. Parasitic.

If everyone was like you, in not wanting to contribute to the infastructure of this nation, can you imagine what this country would be? Well, we wouldn't exist, because Hitler would own us. You are just another guy who like the welfare queens doesn't want to pay for lunch. To take more than they give. Strange bedfellows.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

The money I earn is mine....

Actually the constitution as the founding document for this nation says that the government has the right and the authority to tax you. So no, not all of the money you earn is your own, some of it is due to the government. However, since the government doesn't hoard money in a savings account, you get the benefits of those taxes through our Military, our roads, etc.

As a matter of semantics, you can argue its all yours but you have mandatory expenses and one of those expenses is paying taxes.