Thread: Remember this the next time the Mexican government starts preaching

Aiding illegal immigrants is a crime in Mexico. It could land one in jail for years for as simple an act as feeding a hungry teenager and letting them sleep in a garden shed.

I've been saying this for years and years... every nation on the planet treats illegal immigrants as... illegal

Except the US.

It's sad really... nobody cares.

Originally Posted by tsquare

I've been saying this for years and years... every nation on the planet treats illegal immigrants as... illegal

Except the US.

It's sad really... nobody cares.

And we can blame the Republicans and we can blame the Democrats. I really believe that each, for their own reasons have mostly turned a blind eye to this huge problem. I have mentioned those reasons before, many times.

But you know, it also fits in with this new vision, an implementation of globalization, and I am not just speaking of economic globalization here, although that is much of it

A world without borders. A pipe dream, created by idealistic men who have no basic understanding of what man really is, and how the fact of what he is will never allow their grand ideal to ever WORK. Yet we will waste great wealth and energy in trying to realize what can never be. Not as long as what he is, and what he has always been.

These people are trying to get a great white shark to stop eating seals at feeding time. That is not the nature of the shark, and it is not the nature of man to join hands and sing songs around the campfires. Not as a steady diet.

We can come up with idealistic visions of how the world should be, but what man is, will never allow those visions to become reality. So, understand that man is tribal, let man form those national boundaries, enforce them, respect other national boundaries, and you will then be in the natural accord of human nature. It is what we have always done as a civilized people. To fight it, is stupidity.

The uncontrolled influx of immigrants into any nation causes problems, for the people of the nation, and for the infastructure that was designed to take care of a given number. It can shock a nation to various degrees. Therefore, intelligent men would control immigration, and if you had a large problem with millions coming in, this should be the reason for a national emergency. And we should have stopped this influx years ago.

But special interests trumped intelligence, and representing the american people. Which is prolific today. Our leaders have basically committed treason upon america and the american people. They are willfully allowed damage to be inflicted upon the people they are supposed to look out for. They pass laws and then refuse to enforce them.

The gov't is out of control and out of synch with the american people. What keeps the status quo lies in being able to keep the american people fighting one another. A distraction that has worked to great success. When you keep half of america quarreling and fighting with the other half, aided greatly by the propaganda outlets called the news, you can just forget to do the job that you are bound to do.

The truth is hard and cold and disconcerting. Our gov't, both parties, have decided to let these immigrants in, with no control whatsoever. And while both sides are acting like they are concerned about it, the effort they exert is half hearted, and intentionally lax. They do not want to stop it! They just have to act like they do, in order to appease americans.

If you really look hard, leaving your politics at the door, this failure to address illegal immigration is just another thing the gov't is refusing to do. Eventhough they are bound by law, by the constitution to do their appointed duties. This is in reality pure anarchy, of the ruling elite.

Are monied special interests this powerful? Or is this some plan of globalization, concocted like free trade was in secret, behind locked doors, with no record kept of who was even there, or what was said?

Free trade, offshoring to cheap labor, open up borders to cheap labor. Refuse to address the illegal immigration problem.

You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to think something smells funny.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Remember Mexican President Calderon's comments on the Arizona Immigration Law?



Check this out:



The article goes on to describe widespread, systematic discrimination and even violence against immigrants.

Uh...and that doesn't happen in the US?

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Aiding illegal immigrants is a crime in Mexico. It could land one in jail for years for as simple an act as feeding a hungry teenager and letting them sleep in a garden shed.

Again, same here

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

And we can blame the Republicans and we can blame the Democrats. I really believe that each, for their own reasons have mostly turned a blind eye to this huge problem. I have mentioned those reasons before, many times.

But you know, it also fits in with this new vision, an implementation of globalization, and I am not just speaking of economic globalization here, although that is much of it

A world without borders. A pipe dream, created by idealistic men who have no basic understanding of what man really is, and how the fact of what he is will never allow their grand ideal to ever WORK. Yet we will waste great wealth and energy in trying to realize what can never be. Not as long as what he is, and what he has always been.

These people are trying to get a great white shark to stop eating seals at feeding time. That is not the nature of the shark, and it is not the nature of man to join hands and sing songs around the campfires. Not as a steady diet.

We can come up with idealistic visions of how the world should be, but what man is, will never allow those visions to become reality. So, understand that man is tribal, let man form those national boundaries, enforce them, respect other national boundaries, and you will then be in the natural accord of human nature. It is what we have always done as a civilized people. To fight it, is stupidity.

The uncontrolled influx of immigrants into any nation causes problems, for the people of the nation, and for the infastructure that was designed to take care of a given number. It can shock a nation to various degrees. Therefore, intelligent men would control immigration, and if you had a large problem with millions coming in, this should be the reason for a national emergency. And we should have stopped this influx years ago.

But special interests trumped intelligence, and representing the american people. Which is prolific today. Our leaders have basically committed treason upon america and the american people. They are willfully allowed damage to be inflicted upon the people they are supposed to look out for. They pass laws and then refuse to enforce them.

The gov't is out of control and out of synch with the american people. What keeps the status quo lies in being able to keep the american people fighting one another. A distraction that has worked to great success. When you keep half of america quarreling and fighting with the other half, aided greatly by the propaganda outlets called the news, you can just forget to do the job that you are bound to do.

The truth is hard and cold and disconcerting. Our gov't, both parties, have decided to let these immigrants in, with no control whatsoever. And while both sides are acting like they are concerned about it, the effort they exert is half hearted, and intentionally lax. They do not want to stop it! They just have to act like they do, in order to appease americans.

If you really look hard, leaving your politics at the door, this failure to address illegal immigration is just another thing the gov't is refusing to do. Eventhough they are bound by law, by the constitution to do their appointed duties. This is in reality pure anarchy, of the ruling elite.

Are monied special interests this powerful? Or is this some plan of globalization, concocted like free trade was in secret, behind locked doors, with no record kept of who was even there, or what was said?

Free trade, offshoring to cheap labor, open up borders to cheap labor. Refuse to address the illegal immigration problem.

You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to think something smells funny.

The major thing that makes America unique is that we are LITERALLY a nation of immigrants. In no other nation in the world is the question "what's your nationality?" even legtimate and is often an insult. Jefferson thought it would take a millenia to settle the Louisiana purchase alone. We are the end product of the the greatest human migration in the history of the world and it has made us the most powerful and prosperous entity in human history. If it is not in human nature to generally work together then we, and civilisation in general, must not exist.

Originally Posted by John Drake

The major thing that makes America unique is that we are LITERALLY a nation of immigrants. In no other nation in the world is the question "what's your nationality?" even legtimate and is often an insult. Jefferson thought it would take a millenia to settle the Louisiana purchase alone. We are the end product of the the greatest human migration in the history of the world and it has made us the most powerful and prosperous entity in human history. If it is not in human nature to generally work together than we, and civilisation in general, must not exist.

I think that is pretty simplistic and ignores the make-up of the vast majority of immigrants just prior to our arrival at "the top".

Originally Posted by John Drake

Uh...and that doesn't happen in the US?



Again, same here


The major thing that makes America unique is that we are LITERALLY a nation of immigrants. In no other nation in the world is the question "what's your nationality?" even legtimate and is often an insult. Jefferson thought it would take a millenia to settle the Louisiana purchase alone. We are the end product of the the greatest human migration in the history of the world and it has made us the most powerful and prosperous entity in human history. If it is not in human nature to generally work together then we, and civilisation in general, must not exist.

You are not saying that it is of no importance for a nation to control its immigration flow? Are you?

Immigration has to be managed, in any modern civilized nation. For obvious reasons. Just because this nation is made up of immigrants doesn't negate the essential need of controlling immigration.

We may reach a point where the world has no borders. But that HAS to come after the consciousness of mankind finally takes that last evolutionary leap. And you can't fake this leap. If you try to get rid of borders while man remains unchanged, psychologically, it will inevitably be a disaster and bring more problems than we can deal with.

Until man changes, we had best stick with what has been proven to bring at least some semblence of order, the lessor of evils. Enforced national borders, a military, an economic policy and trade policy that has the goal of enlarging middle classes and bringing prosperity to the nation, instead of only enriching the few at the top. No mulitculturalism at all! Use proven ways of providing social order, economic justice and a healthier society.

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

I think that is pretty simplistic and ignores the make-up of the vast majority of immigrants just prior to our arrival at "the top".

Would you care to elaborate on that a little?

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

You are not saying that it is of no importance for a nation to control its immigration flow? Are you?

Immigration has to be managed, in any modern civilized nation. For obvious reasons. Just because this nation is made up of immigrants doesn't negate the essential need of controlling immigration.

We may reach a point where the world has no borders. But that HAS to come after the consciousness of mankind finally takes that last evolutionary leap. And you can't fake this leap. If you try to get rid of borders while man remains unchanged, psychologically, it will inevitably be a disaster and bring more problems than we can deal with.

Until man changes, we had best stick with what has been proven to bring at least some semblence of order, the lessor of evils. Enforced national borders, a military, an economic policy and trade policy that has the goal of enlarging middle classes and bringing prosperity to the nation, instead of only enriching the few at the top. No mulitculturalism at all! Use proven ways of providing social order, economic justice and a healthier society.

I don't think we should let in people who are wanted criminals, nor with communicable diseases, no. Otherwise fairly uncontrolled immigration is how we got where we are today. I don't see why it shouldn't continue.

Fortunately, certain unknown groups of Cro-Magnons went beyond the thinking you seem to think best about 10,000 years ago, or we would still be living in caves.

I think you underestimate mankind's ability to deal with change while overstating our capacity for making difficulties. It's true that we have an almost unbroken history of war and conflict but nothing happens without exceptions and we are still making more and more progress to better lives for everyone in a steady fashion overall, as we have throughout all of history. Even the so called "Dark Ages" were actually a time of fairly rapid technical progress and show an overall increase in the number of people and our ability to live well. Humanity can only fail if it lacks faith in itself, for what else does it have?

Drake no one in the U.S. will be found guilty of violating a federal immigration law for feeding a transient teen from anther nation or for letting said teen sleep for the night in a garden shed.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

Drake no one in the U.S. will be found guilty of violating a federal immigration law for feeding a transient teen from anther nation or for letting said teen sleep for the night in a garden shed.

Neither have I any examples of Mexicans incarcerated as a result of helping out a starving Belizean, do you?

OTOH it is a fact that any US citizen caught smuggling illegals is likely to be a guest of some institution in the US for more than a significant while

Indeed most of you bitching at the President there for complaining of Central Americans entering his country without permission should be applauding him, for the vast majority of them are actually just on their way here.

Under mexican law being an illegal immigrant is a felony. Aiding illegal immigrants in any fashion is a. Crime. They are treated far more harsh under Mexican law.

Please feel free to ignore reality if you wish and pretend the immigration policies of the U.S. are somehow unfair.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Would you care to elaborate on that a little?

Yes, America is the product of immigration. Yet that immigration was strictly controlled and regulated for much of our nation's existence. That said, during America's rise to the top, the vast and overwhelming majority of those immigrants came from a common source: Europe. As such, those of European decent have made up the majority in this country for its entire existence so far (beginning to change obviously). That trend, as we have seen, is changing. So, again, while it is correct to say we are a nation of immigrants (as you did), one can never forget the nature of that immigration prior to the last few decades. To say an immigrant is and immigrant is an immigrant is simplistic.

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

Yes, America is the product of immigration. Yet that immigration was strictly controlled and regulated for much of our nation's existence. That said, during America's rise to the top, the vast and overwhelming majority of those immigrants came from a common source: Europe. As such, those of European decent have made up the majority in this country for its entire existence so far (beginning to change obviously). That trend, as we have seen, is changing. So, again, while it is correct to say we are a nation of immigrants (as you did), one can never forget the nature of that immigration prior to the last few decades. To say an immigrant is and immigrant is an immigrant is simplistic.

I think I'll just let the blatant prejudice against all non-Europeans of that speak for itself