Ok where to sstart. Well first of all I love how you added words to the quote. What you did in a classroom would get you an F for a grade, something I suspect you are imtimately familiar with. Here is what you quoted me as saying:
Now lets see what I actually said shall we?
bailey why do you make this so very easy to show you up. I mean you didn't even go back a couple of pages to misquote me. You just went to the previous post above yours. Even if someone were very lazy, or just didn't care enough to look, they could not help but see the difference between what I said and what you quoted me as saying. Thank you bailey for further maginalizing yourself. Now let me help you along in that process.


Even in your attempt to show me up you missed the target, indeed this only goes to bolster my contention that you are reading challenged, or math challenged, or quite possibly both. You claimed that since Kilpatrick is the mayor of the largest city in Michigan and since he is in favor of stopping the passport plan, that I must be out of touch with the majority. That statement has so many errors in it I hardly know where to start. Well lets start with the one part of that statement that isn't incorrect. Detroit is indeed the largest city in Michigan. Frankly I am suprised given the remainder of your comment you got even that right. Will wonders never cease.

OK now lets proceed shall we? Lets disect your thought process, if one can call it that. bailey I suspect you would argue with me if I were to tel you that Harper represents the wishes of all Canadians. After all he was elected PM of your country so using your logic he must right? The only problem with that is your logic here. like most everytime else you choose to chime in on a topic, is flawed. In fact Harper represents ,or speaks if you will since that is clearly what you are implying, for those that voted for him. I am pretty sure MM and some of the other liberal voters on this board would take issue with your logic that Harper speaks for them. However you have chosen to assume that Kilpatrick speaks for the entire city of Detroit. Do you even know what percentage of the vote he got in the last election bailey? No? Neither did the election board at 2:00 AM after the polls closed. Why? Because the election was that close. In fact it was so close a recount was demanded. After all was said and done it turns out Kilpatrick only can claim to speak for the 53% of Detroit citizens that voted for him. So he barely speaks for the majority of the largest city in Michigan. let alone the rest of the state, or country. Point one.

Now lets see if you can continue to follow. (Actually this is giving me good practice for when I try to explain moderately complex issues to my 5 year old nephew.) Ok we have established that Kilpatrick does not speak for the entire city of Detroit. Before we go further though lets revisit what you said, lest I be once again accused of not properly quoting you ( by the way are you still living in that large glass house?)
Frankly bailey I shook my head the first time you wrote this, for you to quote it again in your defense was like giving me a christmas present in July. You are clearly equating the fact that Kilpatrick is against the passport issue with the concept that that is a majority opinion. Since you do not claim which majority I am assuming you meant either Detroit city, Michigan as a whole, or the US as a whole. I have already shown you that you can claim he represents a majority of Detroit city but just barely. Since that is the case how could you possibly claim he represents the majority of Michigan. Especially given the fact that Detroit is solidly democratic and the rest of the state is pretty much republican or independant with pockets of democrats.

Even if he did represent the entire city of Detroit that would be around 1 million people, I am being generous with this number so you won't look quite so bad. Michigan has slightly more than 10,000,000 people in it. Since you are math challenged let me do it for you. Detroit barely makes up 1/10 of the population of the state of Michigan. Now do you have any data that wold indicate that a "majority" of Michiganians are oppose to the passport issue? I will make it even easier. Do you have any data that a "majority" of Detroit residents are opposed to the passport issue? And just to cover all of our bases here since you were not specific as to which majority you were refering to, the US as I mentioned has slightly less than 300,000,000 citizens. Do you have any data at all that a majority of them are opposed to the passposrt issue?

Now unlike your representation of what I was supposed to have said, I have actually quoted you accurately. I suppose rather than admit you mis-spoke or come back with some data proving your point you will once again type some inane comment about my state of mind or try to make a joke by playing with my handle. Frankly I think that is about what we have come to expect of you recently. You make these grandiose sounding posts then when confronted with the facts you lapse into your childish "I know I am but what are you" type retorts. bailey you clearly represent all that is wrong with the Canadian educational system. Hopefully for your fellow countrymen the damage is highly localized.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Oh my god! LOL!! You aren't a scriptwriter for Monty Python by any chance? Are you Kafka back from the grave? Stop please, before I split a gut!!!!!!! But seriously, it's time you go back to ignore.

I will wait to respond further to this until I see how you respond in the post I just recently concluded on the other Canadian thread.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Like I said before, your posts keep getting curiouser and curioser.....

Still not going to rise to tbe bait. Others can read our two posts if they have a mind to and come to their own conclusions.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I like what you just posted. I won't put you on ignore as a result because the sentiments you just expressed were the same ones I felt when I originally put you on ignore. In other words, I think you actually post a lot of decent material. The personal insults we fling at each other, while sometimes amusing, sometimes irritating, do, in the end, detract from the opinions and information we are trying to get across. However, there is still nothing wrong about a good, old argument as that's how we learn new viewpoints in the end. It's a stinking hot day here so I'll even hoist a beer in your name. Cheers Gort. You're a worthy adversary. Anyone who takes the time to post as much as you have deserves to be commended for their interest in public affairs and current events. The world needs more people like you. There, I paid you my highest compliment - I've exceeded my quota for the next two years. Must be the heat. Thank god I don't live in France.

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/08/1...n/18immig.html

Now the largest travel organization in the USA is asking for these idiotic border controls proposed by the Bush Administration to be put off for at least three years..... It's not like I haven't been saying this for the last year or so - maybe the dimwits at Homeland Security will catch on one of these centuries.....

“This is going to have a tremendous negative impact, potentially,” said Roger Dow, president of the Travel Industry Association, which represents the nation’s largest airlines, hotels, cruise lines and car rental companies. “We’re going to have a chaotic situation upon us.”

I doubt it is going to happen. Especially after the CBO did a study and found even more people were able to get into the country with forged documents this time than got in when they did the same study 3 years ago. In fact the only one caught htis time was someone who tried to enter with a forged passport. That will wake some people up.

What you want may be good for Canada, but frankly our concern isn't what is good for canada, it is and should be what is good for the US, and while your opinions are interesting, sometimes, they certainly are irrelevant when it comes to how we handle this on our side of the border. If canada doesn't want to require passports no one is forcing you to are they.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I have a passport and have had one for the last 30 years continuously. That's not the issue. Secondly, the border is a shared resource and the US SHOULD consider the opinions of its neighbours since there is a DIRECT impact. Not recognizing this indicates that not only are you short-sighted, you are also exceedingly arrogant. It will bite you in the ass at some point. What goes around comes around. It's a bad policy, period....and you wonder why the US has such a poor international image? You're a good example of why that is the case.

Bailey you just don't get it. I have considered the fact that it is s ashared border. What you see as necessary and what I see, especially in light of the recent report, are two very different things. In fact the passport issue will not really make much of a difference in tourism, your own study showed that, remember the poll you refered to about how this new rule would or would not affect travel plans? The two nations had always talked about s system to make sure that goods can still travel over the border, and I have made reference to that on a number of occasions. So clearly I am taking the most important aspect of the shared border nto consideration.

You on the other hand however seem to feel that unless I agree with everything you post I am being arrogant. Frankly it is arrogant of you to feel that way. When all is said and done we will look out for our own interests, and part of that consideration is the trade off on the reduction in tourism against the increase in security. No one has ever claimed the new rules are fool proof, nor does anyone that I know actually think it will eliminate the threat. However it is one more step in the effort. If you can't see that the decision is up to us what documentation we want to require for anyone entering the country then I am frankly not sure what the point of discussing this with you is. Bailey when Canada passed its assylum laws I do not remember being asked what I thought about it. When you passed your immigration laws I do not reuire being asked if I had a problem with it or not. Why should we ask you. All nations pass laws that affect their citizens based on what they percieve to be in their interest. It is not I that doesn't get this, it is you, and you don't get it because all you see is how this will negatively impact Canada. I expect that to be your primary concern since you are Canadian. I do not expect you to be all that concerned about the fact that to us the issue is completely different.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

First of all, learn to spell as it's a real distraction. You are supposed to replicate the language on this forum, not murder it. Secondly, the only asylym law I'm remotely interested in is the one that locks your ranting self up. When you learn how to debate in a civilized, informed and rational maner I will engage you likewise but since you have proven yourself time and again as being incapable of the three above skills I can only hold you in contempt. I have given you chances to redeem yourself but you can only respond with hate. Maybe your wife has been giving you grief but irregardless, you are not a worthy adversary my friend. Nonetheless, I will still respond to your outrageous claims and general nonsense simply because it is incredibly amusing for me to do so. If you actually come up with a good argument I think I'd have a heart attack or stroke. Try harder Gort.... you're boring me.

First of all clearly you understood my post so spelling is simply your way of adding insults. Frankly I could care less whether these posts have all words spelled correctly or not, and I am tired of explaining why so screw it. If you don't like it put me on ignore, otherwise stop being childish.

Next you wouldn't know a civilized debate if it bit you on the ass, let alone know how to actually engage in one. That part of your post was laughable.

Lastly I don't hate you and I have never indicated I do hate you. Your problem is you do not like it when you have been proven wrong or someone makes a point you can't refute any other way than by raising red herrings.

You claimed I am not in the majority on the passport issue in the US, and to defend this supposition of your you invoked the comments of the mayor of Detroit. When I pointed out he only speaks for slightly over half of the residents of Detroit, let alone the state of Michigan or the US as a whole, you reverted back to form and simply claimed I didn't know what I was talking about. You presented no evidence that the mayor of one medium sized city in the US in any way reflects the thinking of a majority on this issue. I understand why you didn't but before you make utterly assenine coments like that one in the future perhaps a little research to make sure they don't come back haunt you in the future would be in order. You do know how to research don't you? It's hard to tell from the content of your posts.

Next you get upset, and I suspect this is the real reason for your hostility, because of my insistance that you as a Canadian have absolutely nothing to say about the laws we pass in the US. You clearly despise America and Americans yet for some strange reason you feel we should listen to you when passing legislation we feel is in our interest if it even remotely affects Canada. As I pointed out, and you had no response for other than to use it as an insult, you clearly do not consult us on the legistaltion you pass which you feel is in your interest. The difference is I do not expect you to since you are a sovereign nation. Perhaps you should keep that in mind in the future.

Bailey perhaps you should refrain from posting when you are mad. You need to understand it when you do you simply come across like a bitter Canadian that has nothing positive to say about anything outside of Canada. It never fails to provide me with amusement that you sit there and call Americans arrogant for the way they feel about their country and how they defend it, yet you see nothing arrogant about your posts on Canada. One day you will grow up and learn how to discuss things with adults. In the meantime however you will I am sure continue to provide us with a source of amusement through your constant comedic responses.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

You wouldn't know a good argument if it hit you in the face Gort. You can't handle any criticism whatsoever, so defensive are you. When anyone has the temerity to point out some of the misguided policies of the USA you almost have a meltdown. Good luck with that because I'll be pointing out the failed policies of the USA until the day I die. It's called democracy you idiot, something your President claims he is fighting in Iraq for (another huge moron whom you are responsible for as you voted him in TWICE). The rest of the world can scarcely believe that the US could elect such an idiot. You'll always be tarred with that brush for better or worse. Get used to it. As for the topic of this thread, I repeat , the policies of the Bush administration towards the Canada-US border are STUPID, DAMAGING and competely UNNECESSARY. More people die of shootings in the USA on a YEARLY basis than have ever died from terrorism in the USA in the last CENTURY! Open you eyes.

To begin with perhaps you should consult a dictionary before you use big words like failed. This is hardly a failed policy since it has yet to be enforced. As for my having a meltdown, how do you figure. I simply called you on bullshit. Even you aperantly recognized your post about how the majority in America feel about thisas being bullshit since I have repeatedly brought it back up giving you a chance to defend your comment and you have refused to do so. Instead you make some inane comment about your perception of my debating skills.

Lets see what the definition of democracy is shall we and then we can determine who is the idiot here.