Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

I'm of the initial opinion that the passport requirement will have virtually nil effect on reducing terrorism or even illegal immigration given the vastness of the border and lack of security upon it. I mean, it's so easy to get back and forth across the US-Canadian border, maybe even moreso than Mexico, which is already so porous and ineffective that there is no protection there. As with many gun laws, this one--given the factual scenario--seems likely to only affect the law-abiding instead of the criminals who could care less about such laws and regularly evade them. The passport requirement can, however, cause significant inconvenience to the law-abiding. I do believe in holding passports and I hold them and even carry them to Canada although not required to do so, but it does seem to add an extra hurdle that won't advance the ball. I would also sympathise with border residents who will be most inconvenienced, especially with simple things like worn-out passports, damaged passports, forgotten passports, etc. They wear out quickly with use. I can only imagine the hassle it will cause to people like those who live in places like Point Roberts, Washington where the American town is totally surrounded by British Columbia and they must travel around a Canadian peninsula to get American access, etc., snags with the massive back and forth Detroit/Windsor transit, cross-border business road routes, etc.

Originally Posted by Gort

Bailey is just worried about the Canadian small communiteis since most of the traffic like he is talking about is traffic going north.

Frankly almost all of the alarmist reporting I have seen done is comming from Canadian sources. American ones are looking at this more matter of factly than something to get all worked up about. Prhpas that is because most of us do not live anywhere near the Canadian border

Originally Posted by Filize

Everytime I go into Canada to spend money, I get hassled by the glorified security guard asking for a passport even though "technically" it's not required. Then they snidely remark about "you DO know this is another country" and are taken aback when I do hand them my passport.

I won't spend money in Canada anymore. Thanks to CANADIAN border guards.

Originally Posted by Filize

Its because the hated Americans spend their well-loved American Dollars in Canada, and Canada wants that money.

There are more Americans travelling to Canada as tourists than vice versa.

Originally Posted by bcbailey65

As I've been stating on this forum for some time, the proposed US regulations requiring passports for Canadian and US citizens crossing the border are stupid, ill-thought out and a disaster in the making. Someone in homeland security should lose their job!

WASHINGTON (AP) - New York state businesses warned the U.S. Congress on Thursday requiring passports at the Canadian border will disrupt trade and hurt tourism, while one official tried to reassure legislators an alternative ID would probably cost about $50 US.

Howard Zemsky, leader of a Buffalo-area business group, warned legislators: "Don't turn the war on terrorism into the war on tourism."

He and other witnesses outlined their fears a new rule to require passports at all land crossings into the United States by 2008 would clog up commerce with the country's biggest trading partner, Canada, and keep out critical tourism dollars.

As part of the U.S. government's post-Sept. 11, 2001 tightening of security measures, the Department of Homeland Security and Department of State announced the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, which requires passports or one of four other secure documents at border crossings.

Officials on both sides of the U.S.-Canada border argue the passport rule would reduce trade and leisure travel between the two countries. The government, however, maintains it is necessary to prevent terrorists from entering the country.

Legislators sounded almost as concerned as the witnesses, with many on the committee questioning if driver's licences could be upgraded to substitute for passports.

"This is a looming crisis at our borders," said committee chairman Donald Manzullo, an Illinois Republican

Representatives Louise Slaughter and Brian Higgins said just the talk of the rule is already having a chilling effect on travel back and forth, and a passport requirement would essentially throw a bureaucratic wall up between tightly connected communities.

Janice Kephart, a lawyer for the now-defunct 9/11 Commission, said the new rules are critical to keeping out terrorists who can obtain fake drivers licences or other forms of ID.

She also said the U.S. State Department is creating a North American travel card, a cheaper alternative to a $97 passport.

"This card will be about half the cost of a passport, fit into a wallet like a driver's licence, protect privacy, (and) can be vetted against national security information," Kephart said.

A Detroit-based manager for DaimlerChrysler told legislators his supply chain runs right over the border, part of a "just-in-time" manufacturing system that reduces costs by rapid deliveries of inventory.

Under that system, the carmaker moves 700 truckloads a day between Detroit and Windsor, Ont., said the manager, William Cook.

He urged Congress to make sure whatever changes are implemented, they don't turn the border into a giant bottleneck for his company's production line.

The head of a national manufacturing group said businesses are already navigating a maze of options for different government identification cards.

"We've got so many different pieces of new ID that we're creating," said Engler, also a former governor of Michigan.

"Everybody's designing a piece of it and the pieces don't fit very well."

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

I have (Just out of curiosity) some questions about Canada and the Canadian society for you bailey.


Exactly how much independence does the Canadian Provinces have? (I assume its much less than the U.S. states)

How many levels of public elected are there in Canada? (National Parliament, Province council etc.)

Does Canada have 100% free medical care and doctors for the citizens?

How much does Canadians who receive the disability pension get per month? (I know its about 5-6oo$ in the U.S)

Thanks.

Originally Posted by bcbailey65

Canadian provinces have much more independence than US states. They are virtually mini-countries (although not so mini as most are larger than any country in Europe). We have a federal system in Canada - National, provincial, municipal but large urban areas also have regional governments. Medical care is universal and free in Canada but in some provinces you must pay monthly premiums (still very low - about $35 per person but free if you are below a certain income level). There is no charge to go to a hospital or see a doctor. I'm not sure about disability pensions - most workers have supplementary insurance through their companies which would provide 75% of lost income and this is not taxable hence it's equivalent to full income replacement. For those who don't have this arrangement, the government would take care of them but I'm not sure how much they would receive per month - it is a combination of housing allowance plus monthly stipend.

Originally Posted by Wallaroo

.......... My impression is that these systems in Canada are both effective and sympathetic and not some ineffective unsympathetic ridiculous jungle law shit as they are in the U.S.