Dude you talk outta your ass again! Even God would agree that the human rights are in pretty bad shape in the U.S.

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

Give me an example of how human rights inside the US are in bad shape.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Gort's into denying reality and indulging in navel-gazing is something Americans are particularly good at. Don't sweat it Wallaroo - you are absolutely right on.

For someone who has me on ignore you seem to know exactly what you think I am about, which means you read what I say, even if you do get it wrong.

Still waiting for your example of human rights abuses inside the US Wallaroo.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Clearly all the US governors and Canadian premiers near the border share the same opinion about the proposed new border rules being pushed by the USA. Bad for business and bad for people and they are all gearing up for a fight.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968350116467
Opposition grows over U.S. border rules
Ohio gears up to battle Washington

Shares Canadian concerns over ID
Apr. 10, 2006. 01:00 AM
ROB FERGUSON
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU


CHICAGO—Sharing Canadian concerns that looming new U.S. border security rules will hurt tourism and business, Ohio is girding for a fight with Washington, says Governor Bob Taft.

"If the regulations are too burdensome and create a problem, we'll be pushing back," Taft told the Toronto Star.

Pressure would be put on Ohio members of Congress to delay or modify the requirements for passports or a yet-to-be-developed special identity card starting Jan. 1, said Taft, in Chicago for this week's global biotechnology conference. The concerns could easily become an issue in mid-term congressional elections coming in November.

"We're going to be monitoring very carefully how the federal government implements that requirement and looking for ways we can alleviate any potential burden on the commerce that exists," Taft said.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty applauded the move yesterday, saying there is a "disconnect" between Washington and northern states, whose lifeblood is cross-border trade.

"Broadly speaking, security is supposed to trump everything else but when you speak to northern governors they speak of economic security and jobs," said McGuinty, also in Chicago for the conference.

McGuinty, who also serves as Ontario's minister of research and innovation, announced $16 million in new funding for a second phase of Toronto's MaRS Centre, which houses science and technology labs along with tech companies and investment firms that can supply the cash to bring new discoveries to market.

Border provinces are concerned because only one in four Americans has a passport, suggesting few would bother getting the new ID card, either, limiting visits and costing the Canadian tourism industry alone about $1.6 billion annually, according to the Tourism Industry Association of Canada.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`If the regulations are too burdensome ... we'll be pushing back.'

Bob Taft, Ohio governor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At risk for Ohio are billions of dollars in commerce and tourism, said Taft, a Republican.

"Ontario is our number one trading partner," despite the fact the two jurisdictions don't share a land border, added Taft. "There's a lot of traffic and people both ways."

Ontario Tourism Minister Jim Bradley said he agrees with Taft that a "better alternative" is needed.

The governors of Michigan and New York are among those "on side," Bradley said from Toronto.

Quebec Premier Jean Charest met Taft yesterday in Chicago to keep pushing the issue. He also intended to raise it with the governor of Kansas in efforts to build support beyond border states.

"We raise it systematically with all the governors we meet ... they react very positively," Charest told the Star.

"It's the story of hockey teams that go back and forth," he added. "It's the people who cross the border every Saturday to eat in a restaurant on one side or the other."

Last week, Bradley accused Prime Minister Stephen Harper of raising a "white flag" on the issue at the so-called "three amigos" summit in Cancun, Mexico, with U.S. President George W. Bush and his Mexican counterpart Vicente Fox.

Harper told reporters Canada is "running out of time" on the issue.

Bush, whose own popularity is slumping, said the law requiring people crossing the border to have passports or special identity cards will take effect as scheduled Jan. 1 at air and sea borders, and land crossings a year later.

Are you that blind, or are you just pretending? There are so many examples that I don't even know where to start. The biggest human rights problem in today's America is the over two million inmates in American prisons. Most of them live there under horrible conditions and many of them gets beaten up by the prison guards on regular bases. www.hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_prisons

Death penalty off course, but lets not get into that.

Then there's the extensive police brutality and violation of citizens rights in most of the country. Below is a article about it and theres more where that came from.

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

Yeah, the prison issue is huge. Only the US has locked up almost 1% of its citizens at any given time and it has created a huge underclass of ex-felons who have been marked for life and MORE inclined to commit subsequent crimes. Bad policy all around to say nothing of capital punishment and police brutality towards minorities.

Yep, the U.S is indeed a paradise for rotten apples due to their weak and ineffective system. They just cant get it right!

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

FIrst of all the HRW article seems to really only mention the issue of Katrina. Were mistakes made there? Yep you betcha, however given the enormity of the disaster it really isn't all that suprising. Oh and by the way HRW doesn't seem to mention all the criminals that will get off through the court system because Katrina destroyed the evidence. Are there individual cases of abuse elsewhere? I would be suprised if there weren't humans being human and all. I would imagine countries in the EU, as well as Canada, also have their instances of guards going overboard. However this is hardly evidence of a systemic problem. When we do find problems, like the one in Texas not to long ago over how they treated Misouri inmates that were sent to Texas prisons, we correct the situation and make it public. It is not swept under the rug. Provide me with you evidence that "many of them gets beaten up by the prison guards on regular bases." Moreover lets see if you can find instances of "Most of them live there under horrible conditions". Remember you said most not some or a few or one, but most so lets see your proof. Moreover compare it to the horrible conditions elswhere.

No for the death penalty. Frankly that is simply a difference btween the US and Europe. We believe in it you do not. I have no doubt because of that you will see it as a violation of someones human rights. Frankly I have mixed views on it, but when proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone committed murder I have no problem with the death penalty.

Finally lets talk about this:
The article you reference by the way seems to contradict your assertion that "there is extensive police brutality and violation of citizens rights". Lets examine what the article actually says.

Does this occur? Yep it sure does from time to time. Is it a daily occurance everywhere as you seem to imply? Nope, but since you get your information from newspapers in Europe and Bailey and not from actual exerience in the US I am not suprised you think this way. By the way where exactly did this article come from. It is customary to provide that type of information mentioning that articles author. Other wise it is called plagurism or using someone elses words without giving them credit.

It is as I have always said about you. You read something in you local paper or see something on your local TV and assume that makes you an expert on life in America. If it weren't so pathetic it would be funny.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

There's no doubt that the U.S. is behind Northern Europe when talking about human rights, but that pretty much completes the picture. The new members are far from fulfilling modern standards with the field, and I'm confident to say that on many areas they're worse than the U.S. To cite a few examples: in Estonia and Latvia 30% of the population are non-citizens with virtually no rights; and Roma minorities are suffering daily abuses in Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. I don't think that HRW, which by the way is a US based NGO, has any say when it comes to EU membership.

Gort, about the U.S prisons issue. I think you should take a look at this documentary "Americas brutal prisons" from BBC´s Channel 4: http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle8451.htm It runs automatically in the media player and I bet it has never been shown on U.S television! It is the result of four months intense investigation in various of the closed state prison systems in the U.S. It was made by British journalist Deborah Davies and she wrote a article about it as well, which I think you should read (not that I expect you to!)

I didn't say that I was against death penalty did I? I think its okay for serial killers like Richard Kuklinski and Henry Lee Lucas etc.

The article I found about police brutality in the U.S also comes from the HRW site (I thought that was obvious!) The part you bolded says that abusive cops (those that have been discovered) usually don't continue to abuse citizens. Off course they don't, since they would be kicked out of the force next time. The real problem with the Law enforcement agencies in the U.S is quoted below from the same article.
The law enforcement supervisors in Europe and Canada don't cover up for corrupted and abusive officers, I just want you to know that!

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

To begin with I do not believe I ever indicated that the prisons in the US were a nice place to be did I? But these things don't happen in Europe? Perhaps you should go to this site and see for yourself.
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.ns...R?OpenDocument
I will talk about the tape in a minute, some of it I am very familiar with since some of the prisoners abused in Texas were from Missouri and it made the local news pretty heavy when it happened. WHich does seem to contradict your implication that guards simply cover this type of thing up. But more on that later. First lets finish our look into the wonderful prison systems of Europe shall we?
Here are some from Germany
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/germany!Open
And Spain

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/spain!Open

How about Belgium

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/belgium!Open

Or Switzerland
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/switzerland!Open

Or even Sweden
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/switzerland!Open

Note I did not use any of the former Yugoslav countries, nor the former USSR Republics of client states. Had I done so the resulting reports would make being in a US jail look like a walk in the park by compariason. Yet when even a fellow Europen tries to tell you that you are wrong with respect to the eastern European countries you blissfully ignore him and contiinue on by seeming to think that a British journalist has it right. More on that in a minute.
Lets not forget Canada
http://www.prisonjustice.ca/starkrav...1701103_4.html
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/arc...p/t-81927.html
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/arc...p/t-94038.html

Now lets look a the Danish example shall we?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_411214.htm
Perhaps you have issues like this
http://www.crin.org/docs/resources/t...enmark-FBB.pdf
because you do not have more of an interest in putting people who commit crimes where they belong.Should I now assume that Denmark is rife with child molesters? After all this is what you have been doing. Taking a single or even a couple of news shows or articles in a paper and then making a case that the entire US must be like that. So using your tactics I should be within my right to assume Denmark is nothing but a haven for child moletsers who then gt light prison sentances so they can do it again. Of course I would be wrong, but you have never let that stop you in simular circumstances have you. Anyway you get my point. If one looks hard enough (although I will grant you, bailey take note, Canadian prisons do seem to be remarkably devoid of serious issues I had to look hard for what I did find) one can find articles like these about almost any nations prisons or police services. See I actually do want to find out about other societies, not simply look for articles or shows in my local media that will reinforce my preconcieved notions of a particular society. Too bad you don't feel the same.

Now on to the tape from Channel 4. The issue of the prison in Texas is frankly an old one. It related to sme Missouri inmates that were sent to a texas prison. In fact the State of Missouri is suing the Texas Prison system over this. Read up
http://www.cnn.com/US/9708/25/briefs...use/index.html
Also what Cannel 4 did not tell you was this jail was not being managed by the Texas correctional system. Itr was being managed by Capital Correctional Resources a private company. Now that in and of itself does not excuse the situation, but I just thought you should get all the information before you damn a whole country. The Sherriff outside of Pheonix is well known to the country. The fact that his correctional facilities are harsh is also well known to the country. And when he oges over the line that too is wellknown to the country since people keep an eye on him because of his openess about his methods. In fact while the Cannel 4 piece went out of its way to claim that the guards clam up about this type of thing the fact that they, and just about any American news outlet worth its salt, have these tapes at all seems to contradict that assertion. The Texas case for example came out because the tapes were smuggled to a news reporter I believe, and I believe it was done by a guard.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I think you are dead wrong on this one. Civil and political rights might on some occasions be worse in many of the new EU countries than they are in the U.S, I do believe that. Officially all the EU member states has to live up to a lot of political, judicial and human rights as you can see below. They are the so-called Copenhagen Criterias that were approved on a EU summit in Copnhagen back in 1993.

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

I'm aware of the Copenhagen criteria, but in reality the European Union is a poor guardian engel whenever it comes to human rights. I could also ask you the following: Do you honestly believe that the authorities in any of the Baltic countries, say the police for instance, would subscribe to modern human rights standards in practice on a level equalient to that in the US? Did you know that 30 per cent of the Russian minority in Estonia and Latvia have virtually no rights? Both countries are fullblown apartheid regimes.

There are rotten apples everywhere and thats a fact of life. There are some incidents now and then in the western EU prisons, off course there are! What is more interesting however is how many compared to the U.S.
The former USSR republichs are bullshit countries to say the least, not even worth talking about. All I can say about the eastern EU countries is that they live up to many basic human rights that the U.S do not. Thats why the U.S cannot become a member of EU if they wanted to.
So you found some 5 year old cases of child molesting in Denmark, well hallefuckinglujah! How many child molesting cases could I find in the U.S involving catholic priests? What does that say about the Danish prison system? Jack and Shit! (You are just desperate to find some dirt)

Its very few guards in the U.S who dares to stand up against the system they work for. The hero who smuggled out that tape is clearly the exception among the prison guards in the country.

__________________
Jesus was a communist!

<