Yes, I understand your point: I was only adding that some of the motives were genuinely altruistic and some were pragmatic.

That whole subject of Wilson is quite interesting. Wilson was idealistic but he shared the primary fault of liberals: he would not acknowledge the full reality of evil. I read about Clemenceau giving Wilson a tour of France after the war, and Wilson refused to see the full impact of the war.

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"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Maybe not! The main reason that the U.S went to war with Germany in WW2, was because it was revealed that Germany indeed had plans of invading the U.S from the south, together with Mexican forces. I shit you not!

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It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

Oh, is THAT the reason?

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Now, now. We can't all be as gentle as a 40# sledgehammer.

Wouldn't that have been a threat to American democracy?

Yes it would. There you have the main reason for the U.S involvement in the war and why they didnt "help" us right from the start.

__________________

It all comes down to this on election day: Are you a racist, or do you look down on spastics?

Interesting comments. I was in England for a few months, on two separate visits - a few years before Iraq. I had a wonderful time. Most of the people were friendly, but reserved, which I assume is just the English temperament. It is similar to the northeastern US. I had two weird anti-American insults aimed at me, but of course there are obnoxious people everywhere, and the response I had was overwhelmingly positive.

Of course maybe it is quite different now.

I was impressed by the fascination the English have with their own history. Several people, some quite young, "thanked" me as an American for our help in the war - WWII.

I appreciated the comments but that would never happen in the US, except with people who are old enough to remember the war.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

*chuckle*

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Proof?
Proof?
Proof?.........

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

I'd vote for all of the choices available, but since multiple choices are not allowed, I abstain.

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Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

I find we are in complete agreement, although it took a while to figger out.

Anti-Americanism will continue to flourish until Bush Junior is removed from the White House and America stops acting like the Germany of the 1930's by invading countries illegally.

So the US is like Nazi Germany? Just what we need: more anti-Americanism from over the border. You just got here, and already you're making Nazi analogies? What do you do for an encore?

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Don't you see these US actions in the Global perspective? From nightly news one can look at the world situation and think that US is the only actor in the global arena, which simply isn't true, US actions just are more visible. But the global chessboard exists and it has several players who plot for the future and securing their position in this century. The cold war lines generally exist today Russia, China, US, Europe (India will be next to join the game) and all are active in the board, some just operate with low profile. And who really are the "bad guys"? No country is simply bad. Some just choose to play the game while supporting democratic governments and others don't care what governments they support. Many of course support both democratic and undemocratic governments when the game requires them to do so, but some disregard the issue of supporting free governments altogether.

So I think Anti-Americanism stems mostly out of an optical illusion which is created in the media, because those players who make the biggest splash and let the press work freely get most of the coverage in the media, namely the US.

This is an excellent post - it really makes me think about this from a different perspective.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1