Yeah, why would Europe want all the people who rather than complaining, bitching, and moaning about their situation, got off their asses, got on a ship and made a better life for themselves and their families in North America. Why would any country want any self-reliant people?

Often times minority groups.

I guess this discussion is without any sense. I know you did not start it though.

People on boths sides have proved many times that they are able. Europe did so even when the US was allready on the way to become a Great power, and the US did so too often enough.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Maybe a reason for anti-americanism may be found on this page :
http://www.worldcitizensguide.org/noFlash.html

They mean well, yet, what would you feel if, in order to raise understanding between cultures you would read this and these "interesting facts" on your own ...

Australia (English, native languages) - The film industry in Australia is one of the largest in the world.

Austria (Official: German, Slovene (official in Carinthia), Croatian (official in Burgenland), and Hungarian (official in Burgenland)) - Dating in Austria, one might expect to "go dutch." Unless it's a special occasion, men and women split the costs of their dates evenly.

Finland (Official: Finnish, Swedish Other: Sami- and Russian- speaking minorities) - A common activity is going to the sauna.

France - (Everyone speaks French, and the regional dialects (Provencal, Breton, Alsatian, Corsican, Catalan, Basque, Flemish) are rapidly declining.) - In France the number of pets outnumber that of children.

Northern Ireland (English, Welsh (about 26% of the population of Wales), Scottish form of Gaelic (about 60,000 in Scotland)) - In Northern Ireland, it is unacceptable to date more than one person at a time.

South Africa (Official: Afrikaans, English, Ndebele, Pedi, Sotho, Swazi, Tsonga, Tswana, Venda, Xhosa, Zulu) - South Africa is the wealthiest country in Africa, however, there is a large income difference between the races.

etc.

This site is called "Citizens of the World"

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______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

And this is a "serious" website. Link to be found from this one :
http://www.businessfordiplomaticaction.org/

__________________
______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Riiiiiiiight. And in France, there is not one bit of information that is Skewed? Not one thing that is vague. If something like that is a reason for anti-americanism, than there is no hope for the world.

And why didn't you post Canada's?

Canada (Official: English and French.)- Canada has one of the highest immigration rates in the world, resulting in much cultural diversity

Those ignorant jerks, calling us diverse, ugh! I hate them

(Shrug of shoulders) Yes, I agree, this is hopeless.

__________________
______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

They were mainly separatist religious fundamentalists who were at odds with english church. They were the complainers, bitchers, and moaners.

The needed slaves and supplies from the old world and africa. They were not self reliant at all.

Then they brought disease to the natives. Then they commited genocide.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I'm not saying that Europe does not have great people, but Andrewl basically insulted the ancestors of every single American and I called him out on his idiotic statement. My family ancestors crawled out of some of the shittiest possible situations in Germany and Eastern Europe and came to america with literally nothing but the clothes on their backs and prospered.

Not self reliant? What are you talking about? The vast majority of people did not own slaves. They did not need slaves. The plantation owners wanted slaves in order to make as much money as possible, but most people did not. In fact many came as indentured servants, which was little better than being a slave. Most came to America with a few tools and animals and built there own house and people would have gotten along fine without European goods, but Triangular trade made it beneficial to all to participate in the exchange of goods.

And that was just during Colonial times. Later on people flowed out of Eastern Europe and Ireland in order to better their lives. They had little more than the clothes on their backs and managed to survive without the government babysitting them. Now we have scores of Hispanics pouring into our country with the sole intention of improving the lives of their families. Many immigrate illegally and literally have to security net to catch them if they fall through the cracks.

Who were the plantation owners selling their product to? Slaves were not optional in order for capitalism to work, they were required.

I wont deny their ability to live off the land.


Yes.

You implied these people left the old world because they did not want to be bay sat by the government, that they were not complainers. That is where i disagree. They never would have left if the old world government were willing to appease their religious views. They left because they no longer felt welcome in the old world.

None of this has anything to do with illegal immigration.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Slavery is more was a much more complex institution that reached all around the british empire. Remember, it was more than just the slave owners that were contributing to its evils. Leaders sold their people into slavery in Africa. Plantation owners reaped the benefits of slave labor and all of england benefited from the resources and raw materials it provided. Nobody was innocent in the institution of slavery.

The people who came to this country because of religious persecution is a mere drop in the bucket compared to all the Irish, German, Eastern European, and Hispanic people who came and continue to come to this country to make a better life for themselves. That is the self reliance that I am refering to.

I am also wondering why you think this would lead to anti Americanism. I mean I can understand why you think splashing the collected utterances of Hairball on the internet under an American flag would lead to anti Americanism, but what has this site done that so upsets you. It has not slandered any of the nations that it created an entry for, admittedly I did not read all of them though. Are any of the entries patently false? I have never been to Finland so I do not know if i is comon to go to the sauna or not, but in some of the countries I have been to it doesn't seem to be all that far off base. If you read the lead in this was never designed to provide the American traveler with all the information they ever needed to know about other cultures. In fact they provide plenty of information on sources that would provide that information. So in all seriousness what is it about this that got you riled up?

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Agreed.

I imagine some folks came for the adventure, or opportunity. But i would argue that very few people wanted to travel across the atlantic ocean early on, unless there lives were even more miserable in the old world. Sure lots of people from all different backgrounds ended up migrating to the new world, they still do, but the people who settled the new world were religious pilgrims.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

So all americans are now white europeans? Americans come from all over the world, i was only insulting the initial pilgrims. They are the ones who came and brought disease and corruption to an entire culture.

As did mine, and they were all heavily religious. My relatives in the northwest USA are still heavily religious.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown