Well it wouldn't have been a problem in Vienna but my friends decided that there lack of understanding of the german language permitted them to ignore the obvious designation (what else could a picture of a bike mean?) of bike lanes.

In the states bicycle riders use the roads and are subject to all of the same traffic laws that automobiles are. There are designated riding paths in parks and some streets have special bike lane, but in most places bikes are part of traffic.

First of all, forgett it if you are in hurry to catch a train. Its normally a waste of energy, most of all, as the next one drives soon enough anyway (at least if you wanna drive within Austria)

The escalators are normally blocked either by complete foreigners or perhaps by non-Viennese. Of course if too many are on their way, the system breaks down from time to time. That means people are standing on both sides. But if you really are in hurry, take the stairs. You definitely are faster by doing so.

WRT bicycling. What you describe is something I have not observed too often yet. Are you refferring to mixed strips for both bikers and people on foot, or to sole biker lanes? At the former bicyclers will try to get somehow through, without being too rude. At the latter the case is different. There people without a bike have nothing lost.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

I was refering to the mixed strips that are for both bikers and pedestrians. Maybe it just stood out to me because in most places in the U.S. bike riders are not allowed to ride on sidewalks and it is very rude to do so in large crowds so perhaps it was odd to hear bike riders yelling at pedestrians.

Anyways, what was really remarkable to me in Vienna was how much has been done to accommodate people who choose not to drive. The combination of the metro and street tram is superb and the shopping district where no vehicles are allowed at all is great. Granted, most large cities outside of the U.S. are more pedestrian friendly, but Vienna seems cater mostly to pedestrians and users of public transportation with little regard for personal automobiles.

Vienna has its busy streets too. Some are pretty uncomfortable places, but there allways are sufficient sideways everwhere. But you might be surprised how the busiest street of all (that is not a highway and in the west where it lies no highway exists) in Vienna looks like:


The western Gürtel (=belt, the counterpart to the Ring at the center)

Allthough 4 lanes go in both directions, you also have a metro line, a bike lane, sidewalks, trams crossing regularely and dozens of Bus-stops and further southwards, you even have a park-lane in the middle where young people can play basketball, older ones sit down on benches etc.
It pretty much comes down to it, that Highways take away living space and cut cities into pieces, as extreme as city walls. The times in Europe when the car was hailed as the ultimative solution for the urban environment are long gone. Today the perception is more that it is the problem itself.

What are the most used means of traffic in your town, or the next larger to you?
In Vienna its somehow like this if I remember right:
1/3 public means of transport
1/3 car (and other individual motorized vehicles)
4% by bike
and the rest by foot

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Slarti if you do not mind I would like to chime in here. I currently live in Grand Rapids Michigan, town of around 197,000 with an additional 500,000 to 600,000 in the metropolitain area. The difference between Vienna, or most European towns and cities I am aware of, and American cities is one of design. After WWII the city designers in the US began creating something called bedroom communities. Back then most people worked in the cities, but they would go home to the suburbs to sleep, hence the name bedroom community. Back then there was public transportation from some of these communities to the jobs in the cities, however not all. As time went on and people left the cities shopping, liesure activities and even work sprang up closer to the bedroom communities. For the most part there were no real mass transit systems to and from these newer communities to the newer shopping and work sites outside the cities, and since the populations of the larger cities was for the most part dwindling, with a few exceptions, even the mass trait there was reduced. It is to the point now where private cars are by far the most prefered method of getting around, even in larger cities where mass transit has made something of a comeback. Grand Rapids for example has a bus service. I have never used it since it really doesn't fit my schedule nor go where I want to go. Moreover the suburb I live in isn't really even part of the service offered by Grand Rapids, partly because I live in a different country than Grand Rapids is in.

I lived in a Illinois suburb of St. Louis Missouri before moving here. That was a larger city, somewhere around 1.5 to 2 million in the metropolitiain area. They do have a light rail system and a fairly good bus system. I never took them however. I rode the light rail once right after it was built just to try it, and never went back. Mainly because it was not convenient for me to use.

To give you an example of how government policy has played into this here is an actual experience that to this day I do not understand. I also lived in a suburb of Chicago for a while. At the time my office was downtown in a high rise across the street from the Sears Tower. I had a company car since my job required some travel. The IRS had a rule which allowed the company to pay for my gas and parking if I wanted to drive the company car downtown, gas was cheap then but parking cost around $35.00 per day. On top of that it was a 1.5 hour commute each way on a good day. The IRS however would not allow any reimbursement of a $5.00 round trip commuter rail ticket, comperable to the S Bahns in Germany if they still have them. That trip lasted 45 minutes each way and the station was 1 block from the office. Now I usually took the train anyway, but that just goes to show you how messed up government policy is in the US regarding public transportation.

I now live about 40 miles from my office. There is no public transportation between my home and office so now I have no shoice but to drive. Since I love to drive it really doesn't bother me, and even if there were public transportation I am not sure I would use it. I like the freedom having my car in the parking lot provides me at lunch or if I want to leave early.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Thank you for that personal insight into the American situation. I know there are large, pretty effective and good examples of public transport systems in the US just to name NYC. But noone would try to claim that they are not the exception but the rule I guess.

You have mentioned a very important point in my opinion. City design and the design of the surrounding communities. If you inherit a messed up design you are a poor guy, who has very bad cards even if you would have the good will. Thats a considerable problem, especially in the US, but dont think its limited to it, also in Europe you will find examples, even if they might not be that extreme normally. It would be stupid to make you down for errors that have been comitted in the past, no one can undo that. Far more important is the presence. All the plans and projects that are planned today have to be reviewed also from the perspective of transportation. Normally in Europe this is a central factor. I dont know how the situation is in the US, but I have heard that also there much is in the move. There are improvisations to reckognize, like foundations of metros where long none has been, the rediscoverage of the trams, something that has started in America, while in Europe they had still been demolished. The story about the lack of political support for reembursing tickets while driving the car is compensated is a bit discouraging, but I hope you are still on the way to the better.


A concept that would be signficant importance for you in my eyes is the concept of "Park and Ride". Do you know that one? If you do is it common in the US?
Park and Ride means if you live in the periphery and have no good connection to the public means its no problem. You drive to the next high priority connection by car, park it there (of course the stations have large dimensioned parke lots or also if demand makes it necessary parking houses) and then take eg the metro or S-Bahn, to move inside of the city. Normally that reduces your travel time even in comparission to using the car solely, while it often is not even more expensive as the parking lots in the city itself are more expensive than in the periphery.

If you are not interested in such detail please tell me, but I dare to post the Viennese metro and S-Bahn plan. (Yes we have also a quite extensive S-Bahn network too (all blue lines on the plan), that supports the urban periphery and the neighborhood of Vienna.) I post it also because you can see who the Park and Ride sysstem is integral part of the network (look for the P+R symbols). The map is not completely up today though, as there has been opened a metro enlargement just a few weeks ago. The U1 (red line) has been enlarged in the north from Kagran to Lepoldau where it is now connecting to the S-Bahn. Further enlargement is taking place also at the U2 line towards the east (9 new km's under construction)



As I dont want to torture you furthermore I just post a link to the Tram-network plan. In case you really look at it, keep in mind that this plan shows trams only and you have to scroll to see the whole one. The Bus network inner city bus network is of comparable size.

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.p...emap-tram.html

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Slarti when I lived in Dusseldorf I used to take the SBahn from Hosel to the houptbahnhof then a bus and finally a tram to school. frankly while it was fun as a kid I am not sure I want to do that as an adult. And herin lies the difference between us. You see the design of American cities as a failure, at least that is what I am getting from you. I do not. Cities like Chicago are building the center city like crazy these days and what happens is something called "gentrification". They take over older low income housing and build brand new high rise living/office/retail space. The problem is the living spaces start at around $500,000. Now you tell me what low income person can afford to live there, none would be the answer. So they are forced out of the city. The people that move into that expensive high rise housing are no more going to use the subway or bus system than I would. So in essence we haven't gained anything. Even smaller cities like Grand Rapids is going that route.

There is however something even more basic that seperates us. We in fact do have park and rides here, and have for some time. We have special lanes on the freeways that one can only get into if you have more than one person in the car, at least some cities have this lane. However with all of that I would still not take advantage of it. Why? Because then I am at the mercy of someone else, the person who is driving. I prefer to have my own car available whenever I want it. That harkens back to the car culture of the US I grew up with. I like having the personal freedom of being able to get anywhere I want to go anytime I want to go there without having to rely on someone elses schedule.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I'm going to claim victory. I was right all along.

Oh, and of course all the people who had voted the first option -- you can all come out of the woodwork now, dont be --

Since when does one opinion make you right?

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Since when does a 'one liner' post, thats completely out of topic, make me wrong ?

You claimed his opinion made you right I didn't. I merely pointed out you are wrong, but that is only my opinion. The differene is I know for my opinions to be taken as fact they have to be backed up by fact not other peoples opinions. You haven't seemed to have learned that yet.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Well, i dont want to go that far as to call your cities a "failure". After all they work, dont they? But from a the perspective of transport and traffic I would really support the view that there have been committed severe errors.

But do you know what really the difference between Europe and the US is on this issue? I mean appart from the stuff one has inherited. Its the first Oil crises and its consquences.
Before the Oil crises Europe was at least as Car fanatic as the US. Cities were built to be "car friendly" that was the first maxime. Than the real shock came, and I really think the US felt the Oil crises completely different then Europe. It was the time when suddenly doubts started to rise and grow if this "car friendly" is really that good for us. And the oppistion to the premisse of the car friendly city grew constantly. Well, dont get a wrong impression, people dont hate cars, nor are they fans of high gas prices. But they dont want those damn cars next to their houses. And in cities many accept to reach that goal to use the public means.


Thats completely different from us. But over the long I believe you will change your opinion. At least when you start to feel the need to save fuel. And that comes as certain as the death will find all of us one day. Maybe not in the next decades, but most likely within the next 100.

Perhaps I should formulate it provocing: Europeans dont want to have "car friendly" cities anymore. They want "people friendly" cities. Perhaps the difference between us is that we think that both terms contradict with each other.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Anti-Americanism is just simple reaction on rapacious american policy. Nothing more.

__________________
Please watch this:


Shocking video of results of Georgian attack on South Osetia
CNN is spreading propaganda!
American witness: "Not only Georgia, but also U.S. are responsible for the violence in South Ossetia"
Mark Almond: It's simplistic to cast Russia as sole villain in South Ossetia clashes

The difference is -- The professor would have done thorough research ( thats why hes called a professor, by the way), this is how he would have managed to pull out his facts.