Most Cdns. oppose Afghanistan deployment: poll - Page 4 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

dcoltonbrown · #46 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

No, they were not actually. The American Civil War was not their war, yet tens of thousands of them fought in the American Army not as mercenaries. In the First and Second World Wars, Canada declared war on the Germans. It was the US who was pushed into the wars whilst holding out with neutrality. In WWII, the American public was still against declaring war on Germany even after Pearl Harbor, fearing the nature of a two front war.

Canada was FORCED into war as the UK declared war for them. History, folks. Canada had NO CHOICE! They were FOLLOWING orders as a commonwealth state. They had manpower, that is it. They were cannon fodder for the English, nothing more. Don't put the canadians on a pedastel because they were forced to go to war by their 'mother' country.

Quote:

It was the Germans who declared war on the US a few days following Pearl Harbor to force its entry. Canada showed up in Korea, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan and other theatres where the US has been and even some others where the US should have shown up. As for Vietnam, it stayed formally neutral yet tens of thousands served in the US military, not as mercenaries, but as immigrants who chose not to flee back home along with thousands Americans fleeing up there but fought instead, and many thousands who disagreed with Canada's official position came south to volunteer whilst other Americans fled north. And it's generally accepted that the American involvement in Vietnam was a mistake and eventually a failure at the expense of 50,000+ lives so it can't be faulted for being right.

Mercenaries defines. Wow, you are as deceitful as the canadians.

Quote:

Mad Michael is hardly anti-American. He regularly criticises Canadians who appear here to snidely heckle Americans out of jingoism and Kool-Aid rhetoric. He is quite typical of the average Canadian in that regard. It should be noted that this kind of a board will attract hecklers far more than the silent majority who have better motivations that to amuse themselves throwing bumbshells from the safety of their computer. Some other come here because they have strong criticisms and wish to voice them but have no meanness in their intent.

funny.

Quote:

I just can't see how the longest demilitarised border makes them the worst given other borders are so hostile in many parts of the world. If anything the US in history has had designs on them and has attacked it a few times in the distant past, not the other way around. As for the trade statistics, they don't paint the picture explained.

No hostilities because the canadians are pathetically weak and we have nothing to worry about. NOnetheless, their weakness is causing more troubles now that terrorism has seeped into north america.

Thematic-Device · #47 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

Just because a handful of soldiers were killed doesn;t make the canadian militaty worth a shit. Hell, if they weren't there, they wouldn't be dead. dannyitr, the canadian contribution in afghanistan is laughable. I am sorry for your soldiers, but that is what happens when your military puts impotent soldiers in a situation that is over their heads. Now, if some food needed to be airlifted to hungry people in Afghanistan, canada would be the first nation to call so real soldiers can fight the good fight.

During WWII the Canadians were the only Nation to accomplish all of their Objectives on D-Day.

More Recently the Canadian military is the only military capable of fully integrating with the US military. Whether it's a canadian frigate or destroyer taking the place of an american one in a carrier group, Canadians serving in Centcom, canadians serve side by side with americans across the world, and do so with distinction. The Canadian Military has set the world record on the longest range kill.

Quote:

The abilities of Canadian snipers are well known in the international sniping community. Four Canadian Army teams won top honors at the U.S. Army Sniper School's first international sniping competition at Fort Benning, Georgia. Canadian Army snipers have seen limited deployment on recent peacekeeping operations in the Balkans, but in Afghanistan they got the chance to go "live." Two teams of Canadian snipers from the 3rd Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Battle Group deployed in support of U.S. infantrymen from two U.S. Army light infantry battalions (2nd Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division [Air Assault], and 1st Battalion, 2nd Brigade, 10th Mountain Division), during Operation Anaconda in March 2002. The snipers are part of the 3rd PPCLI battalion reconnaissance platoon, stationed in Edmonton, Alberta.

Trained to engage targets out to at least 800 meters, Canada's snipers — there are only a few dozen — learn their trade in the Sniper Cell of the Combat Training Center's Infantry School at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick.

The Canadian Department of National Defense (DND) officially confirmed that a team of six Canadian snipers killed several heavily armed Taliban or al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan in the first weeks of March, "taking out" machine-gun nests and mortar positions at long range — the first confirmed enemy killed in combat by Canadian troops since the Korean War. In a press briefing at the onset of Operation Harpoon, a mopping-up mission to find and eliminate pockets of resistance remaining after Operation Anaconda, Vice-Admiral Greg Maddison, the Deputy Chief of Defense Staff, said Canadian snipers from the 3 PPCLI Battle Group killed enemy fighters during Operation Anaconda and they could kill more in Operation Harpoon. "These sniper teams suppressed enemy mortar and heavy machine-gun positions with deadly accuracy," he noted.

During Operation Anaconda, Canadian snipers killed enemy fighters while defending U.S. troops that were under fire. "As the American battalion was moving down the ridge and dealing with the Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters that they were encountering, the snipers were there to provide defensive capability. As they were moving forward, they would encounter various positions in which mortars were being fired at them and at the Americans and they were able to take out some of these positions and protect the Americans as they were continuing towards their final objective," he added. "Their skills are credited with likely having saved many Allied lives."

He would not say how many enemy fighters the snipers killed or provide any other details of the incident, stating, "First of all, we don't have the specific numbers from the folks on the ground. It's a very difficult thing to ascertain. The snipers were moving forward with the American battalion. Once the Taliban had been neutralized, if you will, they carried on forward to the objective and we're not in the business of actually counting how many folks they may or may not have indeed killed. So I can't tell you a specific number of how many were."

The Canadian Department of National Defense can't (or won't for reasons of political correctness) be specific or give numbers, but Soldier Of Fortune can.
"Without Warning, Sans Remorse"

The need for snipers became apparent to the Canadian Defence Department during the summer of 1990 when snipers from the then-Royal Canadian School of Infantry (RCSI), CFB Gagetown, NB were attached to 5e Groupe-Brigade Mecanise du Canada from BFC Valcartier, Quebec during Operation Salon for the Mohawk Indian uprising in Oka, Quebec.

In 1992, Canadian Army sniping underwent "rejuvenation" at the School of Infantry. The Infantry School conducts the master sniper course and also oversees the three Area Training Centers governing the basic sniper courses. The master snipers are capable of instructing basic snipers and facilitate their continual training, magnifying their impact many times over. The 3PPCLI snipers train at their Area Training Center's Basic Course at the Land Force Western Area Training Center, Wainwright, Alberta. The official motto of the snipers is "Without Warning, Sans Remorse."

For ease of administration and training, snipers are organized as a section of the reconnaissance platoon. The section consists of a sergeant section commander, two master corporals, one of which is the second-in-command, and four corporal/private snipers. The section is organized into three detachments of two snipers each, and the section driver is also a spare sniper. When deployed, each team or detachment is organized as a sniper and an observer. Team members assist each other during long periods of observation and with range estimations, adjustments of rounds and security.

The Section Commander is designated as the unit master sniper, and is responsible for advising the Commanding Officer, usually through the reconnaissance platoon commander, on all matters related to sniping including counter-sniping. He is also responsible for sniper training and testing. According to WO Rick Hills, OIC of the Master Sniper Cell at CFB Gagetown, "The employment of snipers will vary by the scale and type of conflict and the selection of weapons and equipment will also remain flexible and task-dependent. Canadian snipers will always operate, as a minimum, in pairs as a two-man detachment."
Serious Body Counts

Canuck snipers supposedly had the highest number of confirmed kills in the Shah-i-Kot Valley fight. A source in Kandahar working with the Canadian sniper teams estimates "well over 20 confirmed kills at long ranges." There is an unconfirmed, but widely circulated, report of a 2,400-meter kill (chest-shot) against the driver of an enemy resupply truck. If validated, it will be a new record for the longest shot made by a military sniper in combat (currently 2,500 yards or about 2,250 meters, held by GySgt Carlos Hathcock, USMC, near Duc Pho, South Vietnam, January 1967, with a Browning .50 HMG mounting an 8-power Unertl telescopic sight).

Two detachments of Canadian snipers entered the battle alongside U.S. units. One group of three went in with a company from the 101st Airborne's 3rd Brigade "Rakkasans." When the American grunts became pinned down, the three Canadians and three accompanying U.S. Army Special Forces shooters armed with M24 Remingtons went to work. Moving to a vantage point, they began picking-off al-Qaeda fighters engaging the 101st infantrymen. For more than an hour they fought it out with heavily dug-in al-Qaeda fighters. According to Master Corporal (MCPL) "Alex," a 30-year old infantryman from Ottawa and Halifax, "As soon as we got rid of one guy, another would come up, and another one."

With the pressure off them, the company of 101st infantrymen quickly moved into their assigned blocking positions. The Canuck snipers were in their element. They continued their long-range shooting with their McMillan Brothers .50-cal. Tactical Anti-Materiel Sniper Rifle System. This is the new bolt-action, Long-Range Sniper Weapon (LRSW) that was only introduced to Canadian Infantry Battalions in April 2000. The LRSW is modified for Canadian Army use with a moveable cheek piece and shortened bipods, and is fitted with a 16x Leupold optical sight. It has a five-round magazine, weighs 12 kg./26.4 lbs., and is 145cm/58 in. in length. The Canadians push AMAX Match .50-caliber ammunition through it.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/CoolUnderFire.asp
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles.../50sniping.htm

Quote:

"The Canadian snipers are professional, well-trained soldiers who walk into harm's way and fulfilled their mission. They represent the best and they have our respect."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...6271952413_269

O'Sullivan Bere · #48 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

Canada was FORCED into war as the UK declared war for them. History, folks. Canada had NO CHOICE! They were FOLLOWING orders as a commonwealth state. They had manpower, that is it. They were cannon fodder for the English, nothing more. Don't put the canadians on a pedastel because they were forced to go to war by their 'mother' country.

I am not putting them on a pedastal, just keeping them from being maligned by falsehoods. When it was directly ruled by Britain, it had control over some or all of Canada's affairs. After it was Member of the British Commonwealth of Nations, no, and that includes World War II and forward. Canada had full power to make its own foreign and defence policies. The United Kingdom cannot declare war for Canada or other Commonwealth members.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

Mercenaries defines. Wow, you are as deceitful as the canadians.

Just an ad hominem. Mercenaries fight for money, not because they volunteer for belief or because they were drafted by the American government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metlacton

funny.

That sensitive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metlacton

No hostilities because the canadians are pathetically weak and we have nothing to worry about. NOnetheless, their weakness is causing more troubles now that terrorism has seeped into north america.

So Canada is responsible for our huge wide open borders? That would be news to all the illegals in the businesses and homes all around me. I doubt it's news to Al Qaeda either who likewise appreciate the world's largest red carpet into Anywhere, USA.

ViolaLee · #49 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

You thank canadian soldiers and even jerk a tear for them, but you attack US soldiers. Move to canada.

You're nutz,

when did I attack US soldiers?

WTF?

dcoltonbrown · #50 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thematic-Device

During WWII the Canadians were the only Nation to accomplish all of their Objectives on D-Day.

So what? What is your point?

Quote:

More Recently the Canadian military is the only military capable of fully integrating with the US military. Whether it's a canadian frigate or destroyer taking the place of an american one in a carrier group, Canadians serving in Centcom, canadians serve side by side with americans across the world, and do so with distinction. The Canadian Military has set the world record on the longest range kill.

You canadian lovers are too funny, you have fallen hook, line and sinker for canadian propoganda and the points you make are so hilariously funny, I don't know how to respond.
1. Canada's contribution to Centcom is laughable.
2. Integration? LOL, think about what you are saying. A laughable military, dependent on the uS. Of course they made efforts to integrate with the US Army, they have nothing of their own.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/CoolUnderFire.asp
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles.../50sniping.htm

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...6271952413_269[/quote]
Never trust any news from ctv.

dcoltonbrown · #51 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samantha

You're nutz

Just a little when talking about canadians.

dcoltonbrown · #52 (**permalink**) 05-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

I am not putting them on a pedastal, just keeping them from being maligned by falsehoods. When it was directly ruled by Britain, it had control over some or all of Canada's affairs. After it was Member of the British Commonwealth of Nations, no, and that includes World War II and forward. Canada had full power to make its own foreign and defence policies. The United Kingdom cannot declare war for Canada or other Commonwealth members.

YES, THEY DID! Including WWII. While I will admit, WWII is a fine line, The UK essentialy ordered canada to war.

Quote:

Just an ad hominem. Mercenaries fight for money, not because they volunteer for belief or because they were drafted by the American government.

I call bullshit!

Quote:

That sensitive?

no, your comments were so wrong, they are funny.

Quote:

So Canada is responsible for our huge wide open borders? That would be news to all the illegals in the businesses and homes all around me. I doubt it's news to Al Qaeda either who likewise appreciate the world's largest red carpet into Anywhere, USA.

canada is responsible for having a lax immigration system. The only reason al qaida cells in canada don't attack canada is because of insignificance.

Danny · #53 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Obviosuly this matlocton fella is racist toward Canadians. I've never seen so much hate toward my country before. Christ even Al Qaeda have a more favourable view of Canada.

Are you suggesting that our troops are not trained to the same level as American troops? What do you have to base your statement on? You have nothing. I have been through the training and Canadian soldiers and as good if not better trained than US soldiers (no offence meant to the US military of course). We train regularly in the United States along side the Americans. The US has more of them, more funding and more equipment in all areas. I suppose this is what you are refering to. Put together a fighting force with the same number of troops and equipment and the Canadians and Americans will have the same capability.

AdrienXII · #54 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Obviosuly this matlocton fella is racist toward Canadians. I've never seen so much hate toward my country before.

Lucky you. I have seen worse toward my country, in fact, I see worse every day on this forum.

Thematic-Device · #55 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrienXII

Lucky you. I have seen worse toward my country, in fact, I see worse every day on this forum.

Just imagine the attitude towards the Quebecois...

Zedrow · #56 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

It is obvious that matlocton has some predisposition towards Canada that 'he' can't even pinpoint well enough to put into words on this forum. People like this are not worth the time spent typing, as their views (obviously seen in this thread) are not based on reason of logic but emotion.

As a Canadian I want to say thanks to everyone for the kind words and support. A lot of these facts are not well known in Canada, let alone by those in other countries.

As to Frank's original post, I for one feel that joining the mission in Afghanistan was a good decision on behalf of our government and I still fully support our troops there. Just because things are getting a little more fierce should not be a signal for us to withdraw as we will then become exactly what matlocton (and others like him) makes us out to be. We signed on to complete the task, not just a portion of it.

Dormouse · #57 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

YES, THEY DID! Including WWII. While I will admit, WWII is a fine line, The UK essentialy ordered canada to war.

Get thee to a history text!

According to the Statute of Westminster, 1927, Canada became 100% soveriegn from Britian with complete control over Canada's foreign policy.

Thus, on September 3rd when UK declared war on Germany, Canada waited until September 10th (I believe, might have been the 11th) to make our own declaration of war. Canada in no way shape or form was required to go to war at that time. It was Canada's decision alone.

bcbailey65 · #58 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

Canada was FORCED into war as the UK declared war for them. History, folks. Canada had NO CHOICE! They were FOLLOWING orders as a commonwealth state. They had manpower, that is it. They were cannon fodder for the English, nothing more. Don't put the canadians on a pedastel because they were forced to go to war by their 'mother' country.

Mercenaries defines. Wow, you are as deceitful as the canadians.

funny.

No hostilities because the canadians are pathetically weak and we have nothing to worry about. NOnetheless, their weakness is causing more troubles now that terrorism has seeped into north america.

Canada was completely independent in terms of determining its foreign policy as of 1931 (Mad Michael got the year wrong). Don't spout obvious crap matlocton (notlocton to much). It makes you look ignorant.

"Although Canada had already acted on her own in the past, the Statute of Westminster formally put external affairs under the authority of the federal government. Thus, when World War II began in 1939, Canada did not automatically go to war with Britain. As an independent nation, Canada declared war six days after the British."

http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/C...stminster.html
http://www.canadiana.org/citm/themes...ution15_e.html

bcbailey65 · #59 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by matlocton

So what? What is your point?

You canadian lovers are too funny, you have fallen hook, line and sinker for canadian propoganda and the points you make are so hilariously funny, I don't know how to respond.
1. Canada's contribution to Centcom is laughable.
2. Integration? LOL, think about what you are saying. A laughable military, dependent on the uS. Of course they made efforts to integrate with the US Army, they have nothing of their own.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/CoolUnderFire.asp
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles.../50sniping.htm

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...6271952413_269

I spent some time up at CFS Alert and believe me, we were indispensible to the Americans who regularly visited. We did our part to end the Cold War and your ignorance about such matters is a problem of your own making. You don't have a clue.

Wallaroo · #60 (**permalink**) 05-09-2006

This reminds me of an episode some years ago in Afghanistan, where 3 danish and 5 german soldiers got killed because a danish soldier tried to disarm a smaller missile with a ordinary screwdriver. BOOOM!

Bookmarks
Digg	del.icio.us	StumbleUpon	Google

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode