The difference is it really doesn't matter what we do we are in the fishbowl. We could run the most perfect government anyone has ever seen and it still wouldn't satisfy some. They just need a scapegoat or someone to point thier collective fingers at, and for right now we are it. At some point in the not to distant future some other nations citizens will have the pleasure of listening to a bunch of self important ignorants (at least when it comes to the nation they are ranting about)rave on about how bad they are. For now it's us though.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

It would appear that he is working hard on this 'one-term' goal.

Polling indicates that Conservative party support is a 'mile-wide and an inch deep' so they really need to be very clever or very careful to survive their minority status. I haven't seen much of either attribute yet.

I look at politics as theatre. I don't care if it's in the US or anywhere else. It just so happens at the moment it's the US. The comedy was the brouhaha over Clinton's blow job. The tragedy is the Bush administration. Simple theatre, that's all.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

I have to admire Harper's self-control. It was evident during the election campaign. He worked hard to convince sceptical Canadians (is there any other type?) that he was the man for the job. Really given the Chretien legacy he should have walked it in but he didn't. I thought Paul Martin did a pretty good job campaigning, given that he had the miser portfolio on his back before becoming PM. But Harper stayed on plan. Let's see how long it takes before he reverts to form.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

Actually you are missing the bigger picture here on the CLinton thing. Had he not lied to a grand jury I would agree with you that it was not an issue for the Congress. The fact is he did lie in a grand jury and that makes all the difference. As soon as it got in front of the grand jury, why it got there doesn't really matter, it was taken out of the realm of a personal matter and was made a legal matter. He choose not to tell the truth. While I did not care that he was less than honest in his public pronouncements, no President is totally honest, lying to the grand jury made it a different ball game. That is what I don't think you either understand or appreciate. Now if you want comedy all you have to do is look at the people who were most vocal about Clinton lying to the grand jury and then look at what they ae saying about Libby and Rove lying to the grand jury. That is both tragedy and comedy all wrapped up in one act.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I've heard this repeated a hundred times. I'm sure if you keep repeating it, eventually you and others just might begin to believe it.

But the effort that people go to describe the precision of the case shows the fallacy of the game.

Clinton was impeached for a blowjob and no matter how you spin it, that's what comes out in the end. You can talk about perjory all you like - the bottom line is he lied about a blowjob.

The State has no right to be asking about blowjobs in the first place - unless of course punishing him for a blowjob is what the whole game was all about (since they couldn't beat him at the polls).

On another note, the rest of the world has a remarkable ability to ignore the USA - if and only if, the USA would ignore the rest of the world. Unfortunately, that is not possible for the US Government - they seem to need to stick their fingers in every pie. And when the US Government does that, you shouldn't be surprised to find the world's citizenry breathing down American's necks over the issues. Take the US out of Iraq and the silence would be deafening. But that's beside the point, no doubt.

About Clinton's lying to the grand jury - was it about the head job or was it something else? You're right, it wasn't on. Perjury is perjury, no problems there.

Clinton was a pretty good policy president, he was a grub as a husband but that's between him and his wife.

And I tell you, if you want boring check out my country's politics (not that you could be bothered I know), we can't even make the wheat scandal get any public attention (well it is football season here of course and that sort of takes up everyone's time).

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

MM this was part of a unrelated case brought against CLinton years before the blowjob. I am not defending the right here, you should know that by now, nor am I saying that just because he got a blow job we all had a right to know every little detail about it. I am also not one who was in favor of the impeachment, and I think past statements on this will bear me out.

However no matter what else I am I try to be consistent. Clinton was asked about this in a legal proceeding. As soon as it got to the legal proceeding his right to mislead people about the incident is over, especially as he is the highest law enforcement person in the country. Clinton was a lawyer, he knew this and yet he chose to lie in that legal proceeding. As I said I may not have agreed that the prosecution had any right to ask those questions, but once they were asked in a legal proceeding Clintons right to lie about it to protect his wife, daughter or job was over. By lying he did in fact commit a crime. When will you understand it doesn't matter what the subject was, you do not lie in a legal proceeding period. Now his attorneys should have, and to my knowledge did, try to keep this out of that particular case and I have no problem with that. But it all comes down to a willful act on the part of Clinton. He had two choices tell the truth to the proceeding or lie. He made the wrong choice.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

His lie was in fact about the Lewinski. To me that is the point. I really had no problem with his lying on national TV to Americans. We as ordinary people have no right to pry into his private life. And I am pretty sure the only reason this came out at all was because of who he was. If I were in the same position but not an influential person I doubt it would have ever gotten that far, but that is besides the point. When he ran for office he knew that he would be under a microscope. He knew he would have political enemies just waiting for one mistep to take him down. Every President, and I would submit every leader of any country, is painfully aware of this. SO he made to errors in judgement, one actionable on not. First error in my view was the whole Lewinski thing to begin with. However that was not something that was actionable. When he lied to the legal proceeding that was the second and much more serious lapse in judgement.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I'm up to speed. This is the "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" remark isn't it?

In years to come he will be damned for lying about a blowjob. When most blokes would be bragging to their mates in the pub about it. Politics is weird.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

I don't disagree with you, and as I said whether he got a blowjob or not is none of my business. Whether he lies in a legal proceeding or not is, and that is the whole point here. As a laywer and the President with access to the best legal minds in the country, he certainly should have known that.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Well put Mad. It's a personal affair that has nothing to do with being President. Otherwise Kennedy and virtually all other presidents would be up on impeachment charges for having affairs, etc. Honestly, the US is very amusing that way. They've got 45,000,000 without any health coverage whatsoever and they place a priority on a case of fellatio. Good God!

Context matters more than a little Gort, and you seem to have no grasp of it in this situation.

I must be inured to it but the revelation that a politician is capable of lying doesn't surprise me. Having dealt with quite a few of the lying bastards over the years I rather expect it

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

Wow these Foums are hard to follow! They always go way off topic. As for me i Support Harper, after all it'll be hard for him to screw things up as bad as the Liberals did.