WEB Belgium is who caused the whole Rwanda problem, splitting the people into Hutus and Tutsis and making them hate eachother through preferencial treatment. Then abandoning them when the genocide began.

There's a misunderstanding here. I'm not advocating Belgium come in and take over parts of Africa again. Belgium, if I recall correctly, has a unique political system that is designed to tackle very divisive disagreement within its own borders. The system is called consociationalism. This is what I am recommending for African countries.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociationalism

Oh, OK then.

Thank you WOI for the assistance

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Simply the case in Africa ( as anywhere else in the world)is that if the White people stop supporting the non-Whites they would simply wither on the vine so to speak.

Some enlightenment for you :
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/foru...ad.php?t=27147

__________________
"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder

Never said any Race was above another, never even suggested anything close, funny how you always try and find the most ugly thing you can in someone’s idea or post, this says a lot about you I would think.

What I said is that some groups are more civilized then others and respect human life and operate and govern as a group with more morals, if you want to dispute this then please show me examples or some logic that properly refutes this idea and stop pretending to be so disgusted and horrified by someone pointing out the differences in Humans animal nature among different groups.

It seems so hypocritical to me for you to point out how ignorant and undeveloped my mind is in a statement that is trying to convince me that we all act the same and are of equal minds and moral understanding, nice contradiction, keep up the good work.

So I’ve read. I already understand the similarities in all mankind and have made many statements concerning this. You are clearly off topic in trying to refute any of my assertions as I am talking about the differences in cultures and countries, not the common links of human kind. Do you wish to show evidence that we have no differences as groups, races or morality, please knock your self out.


What do the ancient Egyptians have to do with Africa’s problems today? Please tie this into the discussion with some logic. In addition, look at the majority of Egyptians today, they seem to have regressed.

Yes, it seems that the majority in North/Central Africa are black, really wasn’t focusing on the color of the skin though, I was focusing on their activities and how they live and govern and get along with nature and other people. Nice that you pulled the racist card when it is you who are mentioning the skin color and I am not, can you say hypocrite.

OK, so you claim that there were no problems like this in Africa until the white man came along and started collecting slaves, I think your reading has mislead you, I see no evidence of this. Africa, well most of North and North Western Africa’s problems seem to stem from an over populated dry area incapable of sustaining life without some real ingenuity which the local inhabitants obviously lack, therefore nature is kicking the crap out of them until they die off or move, or control the population. Colonialism is a natural occurrence when you cannot properly occupy, defend and govern yourselves, this is a worldwide occurrence and not specific to Africa.

Same as above.

More blame on others, poorly supported and misguided outlook IMO. Everyone is responsible for their own local management and governing, every country is where they are because of the people’s choices and the exercise of their capabilities; outside influence only plays a small part of the makeup of a nation or government. IMO. If your weak and cant occupy and defend your land then someone else will do it for you, that’s human nature.

Of course, more excuses, the indigenous people of Africa are evidently incapable of greed or wrong doing themselves according to this, so none of this is their fault, right?. Weak apologetic argument IMO.


Ridiculous, famines are a product of the people’s ignorance and inability to plan and think ahead or use their natural survival skills. Like I said, if you act like animals then you subject yourself to the cruelest of natures laws. Practice immoral sexual conduct or no control of your urges in masses and you will one day get a fatal epidemic, live in a dry climate without knowledge or gumption to get water from the ground and use it then your crops fail and you starve (cause and affect). Even the Aborigines who live in the harshest desert in the world could figure out how to get water from the most unlikely places and with no modern technology. Just another example of nature culling the ignorant, incapable and/or immoral.

Silliest one yet, now it’s the Vatican’s fault for not providing contraceptives, very funny. Who provided them to the rest of the world before they were even invented? Why cant these people find their own resources instead of leaning on others? You must be young, this sounds like the typical mantra of this young generation that claims that everything is someone else’s fault and they are owed something from birth.

Study human nature with an earnest desire to know the Truth and enlighten yourself without leaning on the crutch of others observations to do it for you. Books are nothing but opinions and are of no use to the lazy mind.


What do the ancient Egyptians have to do with Africa’s problems today? Please tie this into the discussion with some logic. In addition, look at the majority of Egyptians today, they seem to have regressed.

Yes, it seems that the majority in North/Central Africa are black, really wasn’t focusing on the color of the skin though, I was focusing on their activities and how they live and govern and get along with nature and other people. Nice that you pulled the racist card when it is you who are mentioning the skin color and I am not, can you say hypocrite.

OK, so you claim that there were no problems like this in Africa until the white man came along and started collecting slaves, I think your reading has mislead you, I see no evidence of this. Africa, well most of North and North Western Africa’s problems seem to stem from an over populated dry area incapable of sustaining life without some real ingenuity which the local inhabitants obviously lack, therefore nature is kicking the crap out of them until they die of f or move, or control the population. Colonialism is a natural occurrence when you cannot properly occupy, defend and govern yourselves, this is a worldwide occurrence and not specific to Africa.

Same as above.

More blame on others, poorly supported and misguided outlook IMO. Everyone is responsible for their own local management and governing, every country is where they are because of the people’s choices and the exercise of their capabilities; outside influence only plays a small part of the makeup of a nation or government. IMO. If your weak and cant occupy and defend your land then someone else will do it for you, that’s human nature.

Of course, more excuses, the indigenous people of Africa are evidently incapable of greed or wrong doing themselves according to this, so none of this is their fault, right?. Weak apologetic argument IMO.


Ridiculous, famines area product of the people’s ignorance and inability to plan and think ahead or use their natural survival skills. Like I said, if you act like animals then you subject yourself to the cruelest of natures laws. Practice immoral sexual conduct or no control of your urges in masses and you will one day get a fatal epidemic, live in a dry climate without knowledge or gumption to get water from the ground and use it then your crops fail and you starve (cause and affect). Even the Aborigines who live in the harshest desert in the world could figure out how to get water from the most unlikely places and with no modern technology. Just another example of nature culling the ignorant, incapable and/or immoral.

Silliest one yet, now it’s the Vatican’s fault for not providing contraceptives, very funny. Who provided them to the rest of the world before they were even invented? Why cant these people find their own resources instead of leaning on others? You must be young, this sounds like the typical mantra of this young generation that claims that everything is someone else’s fault and they are owed something from birth, and its always someone elses responsibility to take care of the individules problems.

Study human nature with an earnest desire to know the Truth and enlighten yourself without leaning on the crutch of others observations to do it for you. Books are nothing but opinions and are of no use to the lazy mind looking for a shortcut to knowledge. knowledge does not come from books, I dare you to even try and prove it does.

I don't TRY, kingdaddy, the ugliness pops out and hits me in the face. What I try to do, is protest against it, point it out, fight it and ask the poster why they must put ugliness in their posts
God made all of his children with the same size souls. Don't pretend you are better than any of them in your God's eyes.
Noticing ignorant and undeveloped minds is not the same as bigotry against people with darker skin. One way has nothing to do with skin color or nationality and focuses on the person's thoughts and ideas, the other is just racism.

Which current system? Which country?

Many were elected quite legitimately.


Actually, I did not realize how unfamiliar you were with Belgiums exploits in the Congo region. I was not referring to the Belgian efforts in Rwanda at all. King Leopold II of Belgium was responsible for approximately 8 to 10 million deaths and if that doesn't qualify as a genocide, I don't know what does. I seriously had no idea you did not know this.


Liberia

Liberia, for example, (which happens to be on the opposite side of the continent from Rwanda ), is approximately the size of Ohio. 3.4 million people with 6 different languages and 16 different ethnic groups. We speak in this thread as if Africa is a single country to which we could apply a simple governmental solution. I don't believe it is possible.

To tell the truth, I think the countries of Africa could have sorted it out on their own if they hadn't been knocked back in an attempt by the British, US, Belgium, Portugal...(name it), to plunder their spoils. And yes, I'm quite serious. This is not to say that I "blame" anyone - that's worthless.

I have no idea what the solutions are but I know there is more than one solution, more than one problem.

__________________
...the government...is caving in...with their specious arguments couched in the...language of civil rights law, and that the churches ... likewise crumbling to...rhetoric which is nothing but heretical sophistry -- ~F Phelps
Platitudes like the one you offer are no different - and no less incorrect - than the jackass part-time Christian who says, "I'm going to heaven because I'm nice to people." It so misses the point.~Impugn

Here's WEBs relatively ignorant impression of Africa.

Africa is divided between North Africa (which is really not a part of Africa, these are part of the Middle East and include Morrocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt) and Subsaharran Africa.

My impression of Africa is that most countries in Africa share fundamentally the same characteristics.

• Historically these are countries that are not natural countries like China or the United States which formed themselves. These are countries created by European Imperialism and a policy of making states which was about as random as a ball rolling around on a roulette wheel. So the states are not natural. They are a bunch of different tribes (in some states dozens of tribes) where the territory of these tribes were cut in half and thrown into a state with another tribe in no particular order.
  
  The result is chaos. Even if not for the Europeans, Africa would still be in a poor condition to form nation-states as these tribes are not unified. I believe that most Subsaharran African states are this way.
  
• They are poor.
• They contain many different tribes, and the tribes don't get along together.
• They have presidents which are unelected, engage in clientelism, patronage and extreme corruption and graft.

You misunderstood what I was saying. I explained this on another post.

Although I have claimed to be ignorant, I have read 3 books on Africa, which just talk about its politics and history. I am confident that what I said, though broad and general is generally true.

There's a game that many people have played called civilization. In this game, civilizations have a linear development. They start out small, expand, invent the alphabet, language, writing, code of laws, the wheel, literacy, political systems, iron working, banking, economics, military technology, nationalism, universal suffrage, etc.

I will use the setup of this game to explain how I think of Africa and world civilization. Basically, Western nations have developed all this stuff and have gone through the linear development and social evolution. Africa, due primarily to its geography of being cut off from the rest of the world by the Sahara desert and being cut off from Africa by jungle, mountains, desert and savannah, has developed into an extremely underdeveloped backwater.

In my mind Africa is a place that is broken up into all these isolated tribal areas due to topography. Imagine a map that is full of mountains and jungles and oases and there are just a few clearings suitable for habitation. Then imagine the entire map is cut off from the rest of the world by a desert the size of the United States. That is Africa.

When bands of people are cutoff from each other they don't develop the same language, or build roads or engage in much commerce. They don't unite, because it's too hard to dominate the empire. Then you don't get all the cool civilization developments.

In a nutshell that's the story of Africa: a story of disunity and isolation.


WEB

For starters, I'd suggest that most Africans would have had no problem using the quoting system here.

I quote again :
You clearly and unequivocally introduced the historical aspect yourself, ergo all rebuttals based on historical evidence are on-topic.

Cf. supra. Additionally, your perception of regression in Egyptians is mere opinion of a blatantly uninformed individual.

I can say 'hypocrite' but such ability of mine is entirely irrelevant. You referred in an earlier post to holding similar 'ideas' about other people on other continents. Does that include a single white population ? If not, the latent origin of your hatred becomes obvious.

Apparently geography is beyond you too. You missplace the Sahara by several degrees of latitude. The nothern, mediterrean coastline regions are the densely populated ones and ipso facto capable of sustaining large populations. Secondly, anthropomorphing nature is ridiculous. Nature doesn't 'kick the crap' out of anything. Nature just is.
Colonialism isn't 'natural', it's an exclusively human decision to invade other regions, plunder the resources and kill the natives.

Not blame on others, blame on US (as in 'we' not as in 'USA'). Your ignorance of the history of Africa is actually mindboggling. "A small part" ? The local longstanding subsistence cultures were devastated, in some regions an estimated 60 % of able males were abducted, puppet regimes were installed by the West/East blocks in nearly every African country, all natural resources are acquired by Western governments and/or corporations, etc, etc.,etc.... Now tell me how a people can succeed in selfgovernement and selfdevelopment under such conditions. It's fucking easy to take the high road from a position in life that is actually BUILT on the exploitation of the cultures you now seek to degrade.

Cf. supra.

More ignorance. Did you know that the recurrently famine-plagued country Ethiopia is one of the greenest places on Earth ? It is ri-di-cu-lous to claim that Africans lack basic survival skills. If they hadn't had these, you would not even be alive today. It is the Western destruction of the susbsistence economies that is the cause of the famines.
And what the flying fuck is 'immoral sexual conduct' and 'control of urges' and what's that got to do with anything ? Are you jealous that the average African isn't as uptight, unnaturally ashamed and tightassed about sex than the 'moral' Westerner. Heck, if the selfrighteous uptight Westerner would get laid a bit more often, he might not feel the need to susbstitute this urge by the urge to dominate, control and kill those that have a healthy sexlife.

Resorting to pathetic dishonesty now ? Who said anything about 'providing' ? Birth control methods are well known in Africa. The role of the Vatican lies therein that they oblige their priests to preach against their use under threat of 'damnation'. With known results. Once again, I put the blame for the situation in Africa on US, Westerners. Hardly shifting the blame, I'd say.

Ah, 'Truth', that didn't take too long. Sorry, if you want to play repetitio ad infinitum again, seek another victim.
Books are of no use to the lazy mind ? Heck, couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you so much for coming out.

PS
If you're wondering what the IR-reference in the quotes is, it means : Ignorant Racist. 'Ignorant' is not an insult and is addressed in the previous points. 'Racist' is an logical description of this statement :
This is a perception of Africa which is entirely false, uninformed, ignorant and based on explicitly racist 'literature'. Ergo, Ignorant Racist is the most applicable title you deserve with the line of 'thinking' you followed on this subject.

__________________
"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder