Pardon?

Sorry - you are living in Cologne. Okay - then it's more easy: how many Neonazis did you personally really meet in your life? Did you ever discuss with Neonazis? Neonazi is a synomnym for "stupid idiot" that's all. Some like to be stupid iditos, because they hate everything. That's all. Neonazism is an empty word. The problems with neonazism wold be the same if nazism never existed. Then it would be named "Neowarism" or "Neoheroism" or "Neoflashlight" or whatever expsresssion do you like. There will always exist a group o men that will have no chance to survive. The are frustrated and agressive as a base - and from this base on they are seeking for a context. Nazism sounds good. Millions of killed people. That's dangerous, that's good. That's all and it's an easy solution. This people like to have easy and powerful answers. Wether this answers are right or wrong they are not interested.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I agree but why do you tell me this?

The point were the English labeling "Blood and honour" and so on. I think they use the English names as the German names are outlaw. They don't want their party to get outlaw I think. - Or do you think they are too stupid to think so far?

Neonazis - even in Germany - are using the english language. They are not Outlaws but extremists. And Neonazism ist not a german problem it's an international problem.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Ohg - I forgot - and its maybe a biological problem. Neonazis are the only people in the world that have a NoNo ("nothing and nonsense") - controlcenter in the head.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Adaher - the book you read - was it "The Black March" by Peter Neumann? I have that book, he was supposedly a hard-core believer, Nazi Youth inducted into the SS and fought on the Russian Front, back to Austria and was captured by the Russians and forced to perform labor cleaning up Warsaw post-war. Unfortunately this book was long ago revealed to be a fake - the name is a pseudonym and the author never served in the Wehrmacht or SS.

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Don't startle him, Joe - it's almost full!

tarek, I was not trying to slam the French or British with that comment, merely making a factual statement.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

You are right we haven't , although there are no figures on how many civilians were killed in and after the Civil War as a result of the war. However I would also point out we tend to keep pur bloodiest wars to ourselves, we didn't involve Europe.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

My grandfather is a WWII veteran and when I asked him about it, all he said was: "I pray to God that I never killed a fellow human being. I couldn't live bearing such a guilt." He rarely ever talks about the war, he was only 17 when he was forced to join the army and it really must have hit him hard. He lost 2 brothers in that war, both never reached their 18th birthday. It's a painful memory for him. As you might have guessed, he doesn't possess a uniform or medals, not the slightest thing that reminds him of the past (apart from his wounded leg). And he doesn't like to talk about it.

Growing up and being confronted with my country's past I was wondering about how to treat my grandparents, well, the entire grandparents' generation. You start to wonder if those hands, giving you candy, ever killed a man, if those voices, wishing me Merry Christmas, ever yelled paroles of hatred.
However, they are, who they are. Especially those who are still alive today have been quite young back then, I wouldn't blame them. Sometimes I get the feeling they blame themselves - too much even. Many of them are having nightmares, are feeling terribly guilty. (I know one man who - despite of his age and bad health - regularly returns to a battlefield where he shot someone and lays down flowers for this unknown soldier)

I decided not to blame them, but to pity them.

And I bet that's the way, those veterans are treated today: either they are blamed, or pitied. Never heard of anyone being proud of them, as it seems to be the case in other countries.

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Schindler and I are like peas in a pod:we're both factory owners, we both made shells for the Nazis, but mine worked, dammit!

(Mr. Burns)

Those are interesting observations that you made. I hope your grandfather finds peace with himself. I have met many WW2 veterans here, some of them who were willing to speak of combat were not happy about any of it and not happy about any killing the did. They did not have to deal with the type of guilt your grandfather did though.

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Don't startle him, Joe - it's almost full!

That certanly seems to be the slogan for Germany after WW2. Why even waste german taxpayers money on military in the first place?

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Jesus was a communist!

You still need sufficient resources for self-defense. Russia is still not out of the woods yet in terms of evolving into a peaceful democratic state. Russia could easily fall back into fascism and look westward.

Germany paid the price in WWII for its actions. It does not deserve a repeat and should of course arm itself to prevent such a repeat.

My two Grandfathers had been normal german soldiers on the Eastern Front. Both of them had have the luck to survive the war. The one who is living right now told me a lot of his experience but only because i asked. Normally the old people which were involved in WWII don`t speaking about the (for them horribly) time ... and noone of the youngers normally ask, understanding that it may be painful for them to remember. It is like an untold understanding: All Germans know about the horrible things happend during WWII and everyone is ashamed about it and is strived (the right word for "is looking foreward to..?:") to avoid thus crimes in future times. You although have to notice, that not every German Soldier was a Nazi. Mostly they were normal young peoples (a young farmer in the case of my Grandfather) who do not wantet Hitler nor the War nor the Holocaust. But when war came, they had have no other choice as to go out as a soldier and kill people they actually don`t wantet to kill. (If you denied to became a Soldier and to fight - you were seen as an traitor and would be executet by shooting.)

If somone really WAS a Nazi during WWII he shurely do not want to tell anyone about it, cause if he did, he wouldn`t have a nice time in Germany any longer...


so long....

Althir