I was reading an autobiography of a German soldier on the Eastern front last week, and this question came to me. As a nation that has had to come to terms with a great deal of guilt, how do you regard your veterans of WWII, the average Wehrmacht foot soldiers or Luftwaffe pilots or U-boat crewmen? Are they considered heroes? An embarassment? Does the government take care of them? Do they have reunions? Or is it something you just try not to discuss?

I'd also be interested in the Japanese side of things, but as far as I know we don't have any Japanese posters. Sad, because the Japanese seem to have a very different view of their role in the war and I'd love to hear someone from Japan defend the conventional wisdom over there in regards to their war guilt.

Well most of thems are dead.

Usually they are simply seen seen as what they are/where: Fathers & Grandfathers but nor as heroes or Criminals (exept of course those who were involved in direct crimes & massacars).
Often veterans show up in history documentations and describe the war from their memories, how brutal the war was (especially at the eastern front), how scared they were, and often critizing themselve for how naive they were in the beginning. Most of it without attemps to whitewash what happened or to glorify it. (Of course there are excemptions, there always are).
Their memories are one of the reason for the very strong pacifistic settlement in Germany which exists now.

All veterans receive money, but as typical for Germany the system is very complex. Each soldier has a right on a pension but the size of it depends on how long he served and even if he learned a job or earned a degree before he was drafted. In this case it has to be calculated how big his finiancel loss was because he had to join the army. The bigger the loss the more money he gets. Soldiers who were crippled by the war receive a further extra ammount since they have a huge handicap compared to other workers.

Further any widow or (half)orphans also have a right for money.

btws: Usually they are not called veterans (although the term exist in german) but simply "former soldiers" or something similar.

There a clubs who oranize reunions but those are rather rar, and often dont have a very good imiage.

@Japan: You could try it in this forum: http://www.outpostnine.com/forum/ which is mostly centered about japan (althoug it is not really a politic or history fourm, there still should be people who could help you)

Well, those ordinary soldiers that made it home after the war just tried to lead a normal life. There are no big celebrations or ceremonies to honor them. But the ordinary soldiers are/were not seen as an embarassment either. Of course there are some veteran organisations and clubs, but not too many of them and the army tries to keep up the few honourable parts of their tradition and history, but they keep a low profile either.

I feel bad for the conscripts in the German armed forces. It's gotta be tough to be on the vanquished side and then furthermore to find out that the cause you fought for was bankrupt.

It's hard to imagine that here in the US. We "lost" Vietnam, but it wasn't the same because our troops maintained a tactical superiority throughout the war. German troops got battered and beat around for the last three years of the war in horrific fashion. Millions of casualties. The only thing that can really compare in our history is the South in the Civil War.

Actually I do not agree that the Civil war is analogous. In the Civil war the south had good leaders they were just overcome by a much more populous and industrial north eventually. In Germany they had brilliant military leaders who in the end were not really allowed to lead. I don't think Germany would have won the war, but the end would have been much different had a semi rational leader been in charge. I do think the war would have happened anyway becuase of the Treaty of Versaille and what was happeneing in the Weimar Republic at the time.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Yeah. I've also been reading some more detailed histories of the war and it's a series of blunders and missed opportunities for the German and Japanese sides during the 1941-1943 period. In Germany's case especially the generals had different ideas from Hitler about how to win the Russian campaign. And although I doubt Germany could have defeated the US and Britain, I do think they could have knocked the Soviets out of the war by the end of 1942.

Actually I tend to disagree. Had the Germans gemerals been allowed to plan and execute the war the Battle of Britain I thik would have turned out differently. The focus would have most likely remained on British airfields rather than London and other cities. Even the British acknowledge that had the Germans kept their raids on the airfields up they could not have withstood it. Once Britain was taken out of the war the US might never have even enterd since there was a strong isoltionist tendancy and frankly quite a bit of if not pro German sentiment at least not anti German sentiment. After Pearl Harbor had Germany not declared war on the US under my scenario we would most likely have focused on Japan and by the time that war was over Germany would have been in a much stronger position, depending on whther they attacked the east or not. This however is all speculation, although it is fun to speculate sometimes. Heck Harry Turrtledove has made quite a nice living out of speculating what might have been.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Gingrich's book 1946 also addresses that what if.

The war was clearly winnable for the Axis side, but they just made too many tactical, strategic, and diplomatic errors(such as declaring war on the US).

The best way to win a war is very easy: don't start it.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Well I think that Germany as well as Austria or other countries which had major involvements in the Wehrmacht or other German military simply try to forget about it. There are small veteran groups which by far do not get the public respect like in the UK or the US. The reason for that is pretty simple: Hitler's troops fought in the East for the "racial purification" of Europe, causing millions and millions and millions of civilian deaths and the biggest catastrophe in European history.

Some "revisionist" groups try to present the battles of the Wehrmacht as the heroic war of civilisation against evil communism that threatened to overrun Europe. But there is absolutely no evidence for this thesis and it has been denounced by most leading historians many times.

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I wasn't trying to justify the war, merely expressing an opinion on how it might have turned out had Germany not been run by a paranoid at the time.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

German WWII Veterans seem to be quite welcome on The Military Channel and The History Channel.

Although, I have noticed that while British and US veterans are always dressed up in their old military regalia, the German veterans always seem to be dressed in civilian clothing...

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
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Sure, hardly any of them are proud on their uniforms (i doub that most still have one anyway), and symbols like the swatiska are forbidden anyway (although they are usually no part of the uniform, but of some medal which were awarded.)

Yes but IF the Germans would not have been run by a paranoid there would not have been a major war at all IMO.

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Now honestly Speakeasy, can you imagine a German veteran claiming that he was no major war criminal sitting there in front of the camera wearing the Nazi-Uniform with the swastika?

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