This is rather for my fellow Krauts on the board here, the only link I can provide is in german:

http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/mel...F1_BAB,00.html

I oppose the idea of a german participation in a possible EU peacekeeping mission in southern Lebanon. We are already operating over our militarical capacities and I also think it would be more intelligent to sent turkish soldiers there. I also dislike the idea of seeing my motherland beeing directly involved in an armed conflict in which a jewish nation is one of the aggressors. That would make us even more "blackmailable" (looking for the word "erpreßbar" - LEO dict was not able to provide a suitable translation) than we already are.

__________________
"I think that gay marriage should be allowed."
- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign."
- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

The straight talk express. You gotta love it.

Right. If you participate, there will be no option for you but to support Israel. Any behaviour that is not parallel to the interests of Israel (the US interests to be exact) will cause the hysterie in the "free media" and you once again appear to be "the Nazi bastards and the descendants of the Auschwiz gas chambers' operators". Use this excuse to stay in the profitable observer's position, or else you will be used.

Let people talk ... It doesn't really matter what the media say ... anti-Israel(im) = antisemitisism is used against all of those who support the Palesnians or the cause of a Palestinian State or anything related to it. The dogs bark the caravane goes on ...

Reg. mabus's question, I must admit that I am not sure. As far as I am concerned, I think the question is more how efficient this peace corp will be. At any rate, if this peace corp is given enough means and enough competence to be effective and if Germany wishes to send troups, then this should happen under a EU umbrella and not under a national flag.

__________________
______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I'm not German, but I say yes, every country should send peace keeping troops.

Europe should not send a single soldier. Europe has done its best for decades to bring diplomatic and political solutions to the Middle East (see, e.g., the number of UN resolutions on Israel), but the U.S. has continuously destroyed these attempts. They should take the bullets now.

If the USA had not consistently blocked all steps towards progress (just read the 68 UN resolutions on Israel, all vetoed by the USA), there wouldn't have been such a mess in the Middle East now.

We built the current Lebanese government, step by step, and the process was ungoing. We invested billions in our former colony, and the place was finally getting its former glory back. And now the USA allows Israel to destroy these assets, to destroy the entire country's infrastructure, to destroy our stabilization effort, to destroy our attempts at gradually building a viable government.

We have done enough, the USA is to blame, they should take the bullets. Europe doesn't send a single soldier.

Wow, your rose colored Francophone glasses are making you blind.

France sold millions and millions of Francs worth of (second rate) military hardware to Israel.

The French are just pissy because the Israelis stopped buying their flying merde and bought superior US aircraft instead.

This fantasy land crap you are spouting about the French being part of a diplomatic solution is nonsense, even by your standards.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Matt, cut it off, will you. EuroSocialist is not French. Keep your response for another poster.

__________________
______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I don't agree. Who cares who is to blame for the mess at the moment ? Yes, it is true that the entire middle East politics is a mess. Should it be left this way ? I don't think so. Sending a Peace corp seems to be the only alternative at the moment, better than just watching the bombing.

__________________
______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Eurosocialist, you do realize that much of the unrest in the middle east is due to European powers carving up the region with no regard for ethnicity or culture.

Peace in the middle east is in everyone's interest including Germany's. The germany of today has little conection to Nazi Germany other than the few remaining neo-Nazis. There will always be people who shoot off their mouths, but if Israel gives support for the EU to coordinate a peace-keeping mission how could it possibly reflect badly against Germany?

But look, we can keep sending peace keepers. We Europeans can keep pouring billions into the region to stabilize the Middle East through economic, political and even cultural means (we are the world's largest donor). But all the while, the US keeps sending $3 billion worth of war and terror weapons to Israel, each year. So that Israel can destroy our investments in peace, politics and the economy of the region.

Why should we waste any more money on this, when it's guaranteed to be bombed away?

If we send a peace keeping force, it should be conditional:

• the USA must first agree to no longer send billions worth of war machines to Israel each year. After $84 billion, Israel is armed enough, isn't it? It's time to start arming Hamas, the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people. Let's stop the assymetry please.
  
• the USA must first agree to stop consistently veto-ing all UN resolutions against Israel that are ratified by *all* countries on the planet; the USA does this as a matter of principle, no matter what the resolution entails
  
• Israel must first agree to no longer destroy the civil infrastructure of an entire country which we paid for, and it should publicly commit itself to respecting international law, which it is not doing right now
  
• Israel must first agree to recognize Hamas as the democratically elected government of Palestine - the EU pays for the entire Palestinian government and economy - but Israel just keeps destroying it

Only if these very basic conditions are met, might we begin to think of pumping another round of billions into the region.

The EU doesn't get a single €uro from me right now. I will stop paying my taxes if it just wastes billions on political solutions that are bombed away by the Israelis with the approval and the complicity of the Americans.

Enough is enough.

Its a very difficult question. And I think its enlargeable to any European country.

By sending an EU force to the Lebanon with an as strong mandate as Israel wants it could become dangerous. Just think about it. After all, Europe could become part of this endless conflict itself, and would be forced in the end to side up with Israel in it, whatever they should do perhaps.

I have voted "I dont know" in the poll. As I would make the decission dependant on the support of the Arab world for such a mandate. Without the support from the Lebanon for such an EU force operating in their country I would say a definitive no. When they support it fully and also the majority of the Arab world does so it could be perhaps worth a thought though.

I would however like to see that also the Hezbollah does at least not officially oppose this force. Because otherwise it would just mean that the EU force would do the job Israel is doing currently. And I definitely will not support our troops killing Lebanese civilians.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

mpd8488, there is one thing far worse than a prolongation of the middle east conflict. It would be to become integral part of the conflict oneself.

I just can not imagine that European troops should kill Lebanese civlians en masse to continue their war. But I think I can trust that no European politician is as stupid as to risk that.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

But we are already entirely caught up in this conflict! Just look at the very many billions of €uros which we invested in Lebabon's schools, roads, hospitals, tourist infrastructure, etc... Just to see it all be bombed away.

War is more than bodies taking bullets. War is about lost investments, lost perspectives, lost paradigms.

I stick to my gutt feeling. Our aid - yet another round - , whether in the form of troops or investments in Lebabon's political, social, economic, or military infrastructure should be very very conditional this time.

And the Francs and Marks you got back in arms sales. You provided the aircraft the Israelis used to bomb these places in the 70s. You sure weren't protesting then, as the money rolled in.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

France is a part of the EU and of Eurosocialist's French / Belgian axis of the "only real people in the world".

I know it's hard to reconcile your role as arms dealer to the middle east in the 70s with your righteous indignation about arms sales there now, but that does not make it go away.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum