Yes but bailey in order for an insult to work the other party has to actually be insulted. You aren't very good at that score.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I'll take that as a compliment as you are completely inept at it.

Do you even know what you are saying here?

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Well bailey seems to have fled but yesterday the thing he feared most started and yet the border is still open and people are still flying between the two countries. Som much for the doom and gloom.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Perhaps I should send bailey a PM and ask him to come back which I am sure you would appreciate.

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Jesus was a communist!

bailey never bothered me. He was an easy target.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

From what I understand, tourism to the USA is down by 20% since 2001. That's a substantial drop and it's cost the US nearly $95 billion in foregone spending and over $16 billion in foregone government revenue. Substantial by any measure.....Border issues undermine industry

But amazingly it hasn't hurt the overall economy much, and none of that is due to the recent changes in passport requirements, which was the topic of this thread. In fact last year Canadians visiting the US actually increased in number. Look if people are going to stay away because they do not like how they are treated at the border, passport laws aren't going to make a difference. And most of those people that did stay away, considering the articles information on Canadian visitors, already needed a passport to enter the country.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

It's a little cavalier to say that $94 billion doesn't matter. Of course it does as per the comments of the US tourism reps in the article. It certainly hurts all those in the US tourism industry.

If this crossing is made more restrictive it will hurt both economies - I would remind you that Canada is the number 1 export market for more than 30 US states. Once again, the opposite of insubstantial. The question is, why would the US risk screwing up this huge mutually beneficial relationship? I would venture the answer - because most in Washington don't have a clue that this is the world's largest economic relationship bar none. Ignorance is a poor excuse for bad policy decisions. Read on...Discover America Partnership: Issues & Facts, For Policymakers

I would also add that Stevan Porter, president, the Americas, InterContinental Hotels Group; James Rasulo, chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts; J. Willard Marriott, Jr., Chairman and CEO of Marriott International; Jonathan Tisch, chairman and CEO of Loew’s Hotels; and Roger Dow, president and CEO of the Travel Industry Association (TIA) have formed the Discover America Partnership to try to fix the obviously huge problem of the US's poor and declining global image.

Actually I would venture a different answer. In a recent excercise to see how easy it is to get into the US from both Canada and Mexico DHS had people come in using false drivers licenses and state issues ID's. Only one person got caught, and that was someone trying to enter using a forged passport. In the US alone there are over 5,000 various official federal or state forms of ID that are currently acceptable at the border. There is no possible way the border guards can identify fakes in all those, and that accounts for just the US ones not the Canadian licenses. I know of no one who claims this will make us completely safe, but it will make us safer than we are right now.

As for the tourism industry, it isn't the US economy you are worried about, any more than it was the focus of Bailey's concern. It is the Canadian tourism industry. Approximately 20%, according to recent studies I have seen, of Americans have passports and that number goes to 40% among Canadians. In the lead up to the rules being placed on air travel the passport offices indicated there was at least a doubling of the passport requests that they recieved, in fact the went to a 24 hour work day and are planning on opening up a new facility to handle the expected increase. So it appears that those that have to travel to Canada, or know they will be traveling to Canada, are already taking appropriate steps. fact of the matter is no one yet knows the extent of the alleged impact on the tourism industry since the rule for airlines just went into effect and the rule for all other crossings won't go into effect until Jan 08 at the earliest. So in essnece all we are hearing now is typical spin and fear mongering among those that do not like whatever it is they are opposed to. THis is nothing new to us, perhaps you Canadians are not quite as familiar with the tactics of special interest groups.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Excuse me, but thats sooooo narrow minded, I would not have expected to hear this in that form from you.

Even if the sole valid category you accept is national self interest, you have to calculate what Canda thinks about it in. If the US takes meassures that piss off Canada completely you can take for granted that there will be similar counter meassures. Those will hit your own industry and agriculture as direct consequence out of your own actions.

Thats something foreseeable. Thats the nature of politics that engage with foreign countries. That either you think about what the other think about your action, or that you will tumble blind through a mine field. You can not blame the mines than for being hurt. You would have only needed to open your eyes. (ie look at the whole calculation not just at one half).

Furthermore, isn't there a free trade treaty between Canada and the US? Is there a chance that Canada could sue you (or whatever that is called) for non compliance to the rules? I dont know the answer, but if you brake treaties with friendly nations like nothing, you should know that it can be lonely and cold out there in the large world if you are alone because one can not even trust in treaties with you anymore.

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

Countries as large as the U.S, China and Russia dont have to care about what others think of them.

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Jesus was a communist!

[quote]Why because I accept the obvious? Slarti all nations act in their self interest whether you or I like it or agree with it or not. In fact it goes deeper than even that. All people who live in a democratic society act in what they consider to be their interest when they vote for their leaders, so why is it soooo suprising that their leadership does the same thing to make sure they continue to get the votes.

[quote]We have. Right now and since thie plan was anounced you have been hearing horror stories mainly from the canadian side of the border but granted also some from the US side in border states. Outside of border states there is really very little interest in this issue. The problem with all these doom and gloom sayers is they no more know what will happen that frankly you or I do, they are all spinning it in the way that they hope will get the results they want to see. You also have to understand that the US has about 20% of its total trade with Canada, while Canadahas around 80% of its total trade with the US, at least in the last figures I saw. The law for air travel went into effect last month. WHile it is still too early it appears as if it has had little to no effect in travel using that means between the two countries. You also have to understand that even with this new law the two countries are in fact working on some type of system that will allow certain types of trade goods that cross the border daily to be expedited. Slarti perhaps before you pass judgement you should ask about the program.

[quote]Canada has had a long time to get used to this idea. Each country is soveriegn. When they craft their immigration policies they do not ask us for permission to take the steps they want to take. When we craft our border crossing policies we are under no obligation to ask thier permission. There is no mine field here. We have no formal Union with Canada ala the EU. If I recall before the EU you had to have a passport to get from Germany to Holland. They may not have looked at it very hard but you still had to have one.
[quote]I do not believe we are breaking any clause of NAFTA on this one. As far as I am aware there is no clause that sais Canadians and Americans have a right to cross the border without the need to carry a passport.

Really Slarti you should research what you discuss before doing so or ask questions. Here you made assumptions, and a lot of them, that were for the most part incorrect.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

Not entirely true, but given you earlier posts I understand why you think this way.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu