Thanks for that clarification. It sounds already different in comparision to the post I responded to.

This respond of you above is exactly what I said you have to do. Estimate the reaction of the Canadians as this has a major impact on the question if your own action is in your own interest or not.

I did object you saying, that the US does not have to care what Canada thinks, that might be true, but you have to care about how Canada reacts. And this is a direct consquence out of what it thinks combined with its capabilities to react. What you did now, was making yourself thoughts about the reaction of Canada. Even if that means saying they won't do anything of importance as reaction. You in indirect consequence contradicted with your comment:
And thats good that you did.

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

The differences between the two countries is minor. The squabbles we have are ridiculous, idiotic, childish, moronic, etc... You would think 2 countries as large as ours and as advanced would actually work together more because we could accopmplish a hell of a lot, but then there is the pride, which never helps anything when used foolishly. At the end of the day, both countries are squandering opportunities, its a 50/50 deal and we both choose to waste it. Diplomacy in action.

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Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

I see your point.
The cultural differences might be not overly large in fact (except for the French region perhaps), but the political practices and views are quite different.

But for the rest I agree with you.

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

But for the fact that we are parliamentary and they are presidential, I actually don't think the political views are that different when it comes down to it. Our ancestors come from the same European nations and we are virtually the same people. The French are the notable difference, but it is far exagerated for the sake of drama. As I have always said the real differences are regional, not a border. Here in Nova Scotia we have more in common with someone from New England, both socially and politically than someone from Alberta or Kansas, Texas, or British Columbia while someone from Alberta has more in common with someone from Montana than with someone from Nova Scotia.

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Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

I dont know much about that all. And you as Canadian should know it better, but I heard already often that when it comes to politics, Canada very often lies far nearer to the position of the EU than the US do.

Canadians politicians seem to be also far more cooperative.

Last but not least, Canada has a pretty good reputation at least in Europe, while the US... ehm... well, just say Canada has a good reputation

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

Of course what you say is merely common sense Slart...but it amazes me how precious that commodity appears to be in the good ole USA.....

[quote=Gort;914552][quote]Why because I accept the obvious? Slarti all nations act in their self interest whether you or I like it or agree with it or not. In fact it goes deeper than even that. All people who live in a democratic society act in what they consider to be their interest when they vote for their leaders, so why is it soooo suprising that their leadership does the same thing to make sure they continue to get the votes.

[quote]We have. Right now and since thie plan was anounced you have been hearing horror stories mainly from the canadian side of the border but granted also some from the US side in border states. Outside of border states there is really very little interest in this issue. The problem with all these doom and gloom sayers is they no more know what will happen that frankly you or I do, they are all spinning it in the way that they hope will get the results they want to see. You also have to understand that the US has about 20% of its total trade with Canada, while Canadahas around 80% of its total trade with the US, at least in the last figures I saw. The law for air travel went into effect last month. WHile it is still too early it appears as if it has had little to no effect in travel using that means between the two countries. You also have to understand that even with this new law the two countries are in fact working on some type of system that will allow certain types of trade goods that cross the border daily to be expedited. Slarti perhaps before you pass judgement you should ask about the program.

[quote]Canada has had a long time to get used to this idea. Each country is soveriegn. When they craft their immigration policies they do not ask us for permission to take the steps they want to take. When we craft our border crossing policies we are under no obligation to ask thier permission. There is no mine field here. We have no formal Union with Canada ala the EU. If I recall before the EU you had to have a passport to get from Germany to Holland. They may not have looked at it very hard but you still had to have one.
...but it is obviously NOT in the self-interest of the USA to act in a such an anti-Canadian manner as we are your largest trading partner and your largest source of imported energy. Pretty stupid on the part of the US government if you ask me....

Oh, I beg to differ. Canada has many grievances with the US. Sure, for the most part we get along but there is a different political context in Canada due to our history and there always will be. Toronto is one of the most anti-American cities in the world due to its proximity to the US and Montreal and Vancouver aren't far behind. You are fooling yourself if you don't recognize the sentiments of the majority of your Canadian compatriots. Ever wonder why Carolyn Parrish got elected?...or why the Liberals have dominated Canadian politics since Confederation, the current governmental anomaly notwithstanding? That sentiment will wax and wane but will always be the dominant political influence - especially when cowboys to the south like Bush are in power.

You are correct. The political views and practices are quite different between Canada and the US - we have a very different system of government for starters, Canada being a Parliamentary democracy with the Queen as the head of state. The US is a Republic.

Canadians want there to be a huge difference, a major divide, a rift. This country has a massive inferiority complex. Go ask those anti-american people why they are anti-american, and the majority will say something so stupid that if they were americans Rick Mercer would put them on his show. Then there are those that would say they don't like the US because of Bush, but voted for Harper. The majority of them probably don't even know Harper is Prime Minister. 95% of anti-american sentiment in this country is pure ignorance.

You obviously misunderstood me, I said there is no reason for the sentiments in this counrty, therefore yes, I recognize there are differences, and there always will be, but they are exagerated. You are fooling yourself if you think an Albertan has the same concerns as a Nova Scotian, and in fact, someone from New England will share many more of the concerns, politically and socially, with Nova Scotians, why don't I start an anti-Albertan rally, they are rich, powerful, stealing our workers, making the government hate us, those pricks!! No that is an easy way out, a stupid method of thought, and similar to our "differences" with the US and it is not productive at all.

The Liberals domination was not based on the US. Anyone who votes for a party because they believe it is anti-US doesn't deserve to vote because they hurt the country. There are many times of cooperation with the Liberal government and the US, and the current government is much more likely to cause a problem with the US than the Liberals. There are many more reasons why the Liberals have won, many many more.

We make the differences seem so huge, but they aren't, we have debates on the same things, and people who think the same way on both sides, whether it be the wars, health care, gay marriage, whatever the issue, we are similar. Those who carry the inferiority complex with them will continue to insist upon this divide and they will get their way because they are the ones being heard.

And on Canada, you can't generalize Canadians, the same as you can't generalize Americans. In Canada the East, the West, and Central Canada all have different views, ideals, wants, and concerns. My "Canadian counterparts" are as different from me as an American, a Brazilian, an Australian, etc...

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Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

That really doesn't affect things as much as you think. The Queen has ceremonial power here that's it. If she told us no on something, we would just say sorry, but yes. The US with a Democrat house now has a kind of minority government, same as us, and when there is a majority government here, the PM has more power over Canada than the President has over the US. The names are different, and the main difference is really that the cabinet is not picked out of anyone by the Prime Minister, but that they are elected MPs, but that hardly changes anything. Again, yes there are differences, but they are minor on the grand scale, unless you are a Canadian with an inferiority complex, then it is a massive difference.

This country has far too many problems to be worrying about the US like we do. Over time it has allowed our leaders to get off the hook on the crap they pull and it has taken away from pressing issues here. Imagine if we were really friend's what we could accomplish. One day books and essays will be written on the partnership that was wasted between Canada and the US because of the insecurities of jealous and irrational people.

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Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else get your way.

"There is no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation" - Pierre Trudeau

“No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.” - Kate Beckinsale

Since the whole reason for Canada's existence is that we didn't want to be American, I'd beg to differ! Otherwise my UEL ancestors, some of whom were serving as officers in the British Army in the US pre-1776 wouldn't have made the move north.....