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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
Ductor Remigium's Avatar
Ductor Remigium Ductor Remigium is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

It was nice to see the President of Georgia on tv commenting on Putins phrase that The downfall of Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy in the 20th century, Saakasvili said that, I don't know about Putin, but that was the happiest day of my life when the Soviet Union fell.

Putin was a lieutenant colonel in the KGB and most of his advisors are ex-KGB too, it seems that old habits die hard.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Fennica Fennica is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ductor Remigium View Post
What is happening now in Georgia? There seems to have been few "crisis" in the relationships between Russia and Georgia. the latest one is that apparently Russia has closed the border between the two countries. Georgia captured a few russian spies and they're now releasing them. "Mr Putin likened the arrests to the repression of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's feared police chief, saying they were "a sign of the political legacy of Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria"." Awhile ago Putin also accused Georgia of state terrorism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5397102.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5398384.stm

Seems that Russia doesn't like Georgia being a pro-western country.
I have been watching this rather closely, aswell. Different point of view then yours, I'd imagine!
Four Russian spies were caught and Putin twisted it so that Georgians had taken "several Russian soldiers" as captives.
Intresting is that energy-cut in the last winter did not have the affect Putin hoped, separtist forces are way too small without the Russian support and now Russians try to keep their soldiers in Georgia. They actually have two bases right in the Georgia capital. These bases are supposed to empty by the year 2008, so Putin is in a hurry.
I'd like to hear how the Russian media is covering this. Strong coloring, I suspect.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
Ductor Remigium's Avatar
Ductor Remigium Ductor Remigium is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

"Different point of view then yours, I'd imagine!"
How's that?

Putin doesn't like losing his grip on Ukraine and Georgia. Even tried to poison Yushchenko. I wonder what would happen if Finland announced it would be applying for Nato membership.. even more troops placed on the border?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ductor Remigium View Post
"Different point of view then yours, I'd imagine!"
How's that?

Putin doesn't like losing his grip on Ukraine and Georgia. Even tried to poison Yushchenko. I wonder what would happen if Finland announced it would be applying for Nato membership.. even more troops placed on the border?
You tend to views more politically as I have a nasty habit to view it militarily..

Maybe. They did just have a huge war-game in Karelia and in st.Petersburg area. Just to show their muscles. EU people were here then...
Russia has already shaken off the mask of democratic nation, it is as it has always been. (hows yor marksman these days?)
We? to NATO, pff. Not going to happen, thankfully.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
It's hard to speak with islamist fanatics. It is also hard to speak with brainwashed western russophobes who are live in the world of stereotypes and propaganda mantras.
Since that is all you think we are, perhaps you should simply stop trying, then it won't be hard at all.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Ductor Remigium Ductor Remigium is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fennica View Post
You tend to views more politically as I have a nasty habit to view it militarily..

Maybe. They did just have a huge war-game in Karelia and in st.Petersburg area. Just to show their muscles. EU people were here then...
Russia has already shaken off the mask of democratic nation, it is as it has always been. (hows yor marksman these days?)
We? to NATO, pff. Not going to happen, thankfully.
You remember the war games they had near Estonia over half a year ago.. the one where a russian fighter fired rockets to an estonian field (heinäpellolle)? Haven't had a chance to test my marksmanship lately, it alone would not be enough to maintain our credible defence. I think our credible defence (uskottava puolustus), would be credible with nukes or nato. I thought that you with the military thinkin would see that we do have a security problem (turvallisuusvaje). Or maybe you have better knowledge of our defence capabilities.

Last edited by Ductor Remigium; 10-02-2006 at 11:19 AM.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Just one fact: Georgia charged russian soldiers with spying saying that they organized terracts 2 month ago (those terracts were probably organized by Saakashvili) while some soldiers arrived in Georgia less then month ago.

Remember, that Stalin (real name: Djugashvili) and Beria (direct organizer of GULAG and terror) were georgians. It seems like it is in georgian national tradition to organize terror.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Since that is all you think we are, perhaps you should simply stop trying, then it won't be hard at all.
I meant people that still live in the time of Cold War. Its hard to speak with people that are not trying to analyse but saying mantras and stereotypes.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ductor Remigium View Post
You remember the war games they had near Estonia over half a year ago.. the one where a russian fighter fired rockets to an estonian field (heinäpellolle)? Haven't had a chance to test my marksmanship lately, it alone would not be enough to maintain our credible defence. I think our credible defence (uskottava puolustus), would be credible with nukes or nato. I thought that you with the military thinkin would see that we do have a security problem (turvallisuusvaje). Or maybe you have better knowledge of our defence capabilities.
I do, because we have Estonians as exhange studenst at the moment..
Never NATO, they would not come to aid, you know this. And hired soldiers would be equally poor decidion, only a handfull of troops and a vast area to defend, might aswell call it Helsinki Defence troops, Pff. Talk about equality then..
Conscriptional army suits us the best. Our conscripts are highly trained and equipped adequtely. More money to upgrade, and it would look good again.. Besides, who wants to invade when basically every man is a soldier..
Security problem comes from the political manners, politics decide what the army needs, it is plain wrong. As is the NATO compatible equipment. We should get the best, not linked.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Just one fact: Georgia charged russian soldiers with spying saying that they organized terracts 2 month ago (those terracts were probably organized by Saakashvili) while some soldiers arrived in Georgia less then month ago.

Remember, that Stalin (real name: Djugashvili) and Beria (direct organizer of GULAG and terror) were georgians. It seems like it is in georgian national tradition to organize terror.
What are the Russian soldiers doing inside independent nation anyway? They want you out, and I don't think two bases in their capital help the matter..
Don't say that all Georgians are like Stalins, It's like calling all Austrians lunatics..
If Georgians organize terror, what do Russians have a habit for??
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
What are the Russian soldiers doing inside independent nation anyway? They want you out, and I don't think two bases in their capital help the matter..
Russia discharge it's obligations on troops withdrawall in full measure.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Russia discharge it's obligations on troops withdrawall in full measure.
Meaning?
They will not depart anytime soon? Has your goverment explained why is that? By the way, do you think they should be there?
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Quote:
Meaning?
They will not depart anytime soon? Has your goverment explained why is that? By the way, do you think they should be there?
They are constantly departing little-by-little. Russia and Georgia concluded agreement on army withdrawall.

Russia keep agreement with Georgia on army withdrawall and discharge a liability on it. Troops and technics (especially so much as Russia has in Georgia) can't be withdrawn at one moment.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2006
Ductor Remigium's Avatar
Ductor Remigium Ductor Remigium is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Georgia is now under an economic blockade. I wonder if there is any specific reason for it? Maybe Mille can explain.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2006
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Georgian Democracy 4ever!

Yep, i can. The reason is simple - Georgia has prisoned russian soldiers, calling them "terrorists and spies". But those soldiers arrived in Georgia less than 1 month ago. While terracts happened more than 2 month ago. South Osetia say that those terracts were organised by georgian government. Evidences of people on the video are really fun for people who know situation. Soldiers were released about 2 hours after Putin have called Bush. So the sutiation is seen by the most russians in that way:



Quote:
Georgia is now under an economic blockade
No. There're only transport and post blocades.

I'm actually tired of those stories... Better forget everything and have fun...

Last edited by MilleVanille; 10-03-2006 at 06:05 AM.
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