Canadians blame US foreign policy for 9/11 - Page 6 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

segep soch · #76 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by doniston

it is BECAUSE it is today that it was brought up.

Yeah, I fail to understand how talking about what led to the attacks is somehow "dishonoring" the dead. However, a couple people felt strongly that it did, so I respected that sentiment and waited until today.

Stumper · #77 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus1124

Just out of curiousity, specifically, which of our pre-9/11 policies would you all suggest we have changed or done differently if it would have--in your opinion--mollified our attackers?

The first mistake was to make referrence to an "Axis of Evil".

I mean come on ... that is really a stretch to blanket entire nations as evil. At that point the North Koreans said "fuck you" and kicked out the IAEA. Prior to that they were in there and doing their monitoring.

Your man GWB alienated them and threatened them. This is the nature of the current administration's policies.

In his words "you are either with us or you are against us".

[Stumper]

doniston · #78 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

You are confusing "facts" with opinion. So Blowback is a bitch they say... and this was one bitch of a blowback!? So we had it coming? Well, that explains why so many Canadians comfort themselves with the bizarre fantasy that Americans are to blame for 9/11, as indicated in the opening post.

Sickening stuff - although at least you are open with your anti-American hatred. Although OBL hardly needs apologists.

GET things straight. He did NOT say that. he said that OBL had admitted the reason for the attack. now if you beleive he was behind the attack, then obviously you should beleive his explaination of why. No one said we had it coming, that is your expanded veiw. He said that was the reason for the attack. but In my own personal opinion, I can understand "WHY" they did it. That doesn't make it right.

segep soch · #79 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumper

In his words "you are either with us or you are against us".

[Stumper]

Some of these people are thinking, "You either agree with me or you hate Americans"

Same false choice. The same kind of black and white thinking that got us into this mess.

segep soch · #80 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by segep soch

Yeah, I fail to understand how talking about what led to the attacks is somehow "dishonoring" the dead. However, a couple people felt strongly that it did, so I respected that sentiment and waited until today.

Failing to own up to and learn from our mistakes is the best way to DIShonor the dead.

Tim · #81 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

[quote=segep soch;797791]

Quote:

Apparently, I have to keep spelling this stuff out for you. Again you have made a leap in logic.

Predictable ≠ Reasonable

Danny said it was predictable, not reasonable. If I walk up to a large, drunk biker in a bar and I insult him, he's likely to hit me in the nose. Is that a reasonable response? No. Is it predictable? Yes.

You have once again missed the point. The phrase "bring it on ourselves" clearly and obviously moves the blame from the terrorists to Americans. This is not reasonable.

The original post PLACES THE BLAME ON AMERICANS in the opinion of a majority of Canadians. This is not reasonable either.

Quote:

Then here we are, stuck again. I'll spell it out one last time.

America's foreign policy ≠ America

If you persist in putting words in other people's mouths, there is no point in your taking part in this discussion. Hatred [of anyone who disagrees with your perfect view of America] that goes this deep cannot be met with rational argument.

You do not know my views. You do not have the remotest conception. If you cannot acknowledge the clear and obvious message of these posts, that is surely your problem. Merely twisting my words to your advantage is a rather pathetic response, don't you think?

segep soch · #82 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

[quote=Tim;797815]

Quote:

Originally Posted by segep soch

You have once again missed the point. The phrase "bring it on ourselves" clearly and obviously moves the blame from the terrorists to Americans. This is not reasonable.

The original post PLACES THE BLAME ON AMERICANS in the opinion of a majority of Canadians. This is not reasonable either.

You do not know my views. You do not have the remotest conception. If you cannot acknowledge the clear and obvious message of these posts, that is surely your problem. Merely twisting my words to your advantage is a rather pathetic response, don't you think?

Uh....Isn't the title of this thread Canadians blame US foreign policy for 9/11?

Or is my computer messed up?

Tim · #83 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

[quote=segep soch;797817]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Uh....Isn't the title of this thread Canadians blame US foreign policy for 9/11?

Or is my computer messed up?

Not your computer.....

doniston · #84 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Marcus1124;797729]Interesting, so Canadian's are "smarter" then people who do NOT think that it is U.S. foreign policy that was the real motivation behind the islamic extremism we are at war with.

So, what policies of the Canadian government have resulted in that? My guess (supported by decades of proclamations from Islamic extremists) is that it is no foreign policy in particular, but the very freedom and tolerance of the West as a whole. Why the U.S. most specifically? Because we are the most powerful, most succesful, and greatest threat to their evil ambition

MY OWN TAKE: I don't know whoTom Nicols is, but regardless just another opinion. but tho the question as such was not asked, I assumethat this is a question of If it is because of the US foreign policy, why did it involve Canada. If that is the real question. the answere is also "REAL" simply. They are our allies, they are our neighbors, and as just happened in britain, and will continue to happen in our allie's countries, BECAUSE THE ARE OUR ALLIES, and thus on our side. that doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out. What we do tends to rub off on those with which we associate.

segep soch · #85 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madlib

A majority of Canadians believe U.S. foreign policy was one of the root causes that led to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks...

The poll suggests that 77 per cent of Quebecers polled primarily blame American foreign policy for the Sept. 11 attacks.

When participants were given the option of choosing more than one cause for the attacks, two-thirds blamed Islamic fundamentalists and their anti-Western views...

Canadian opinions have hardened against the United States and its role on the world stage...

But Canadians are divided on whether their government should pay more attention to issues fuelling extremist organizations in the Middle East, he said.

I still don't see this "hate" you keep talking about.

doniston · #86 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Marcus1124;797729]Interesting, so Canadian's are "smarter" then people who do NOT think that it is U.S. foreign policy that was the real motivation behind the islamic extremism we are at war with.

So, what policies of the Canadian government have resulted in that? My guess (supported by decades of proclamations from Islamic extremists) is that it is no foreign policy in particular, but the very freedom and tolerance of the West as a whole. Why the U.S. most specifically? Because we are the most powerful, most succesful, and greatest threat to their evil ambition

MY OWN TAKE: I don't know whoTom Nicols is, but regardless just another opinion. but tho the question as such was not asked, I assumethat this is a question of If it is because of the US foreign policy, why did it involve Canada. If that is the real question. the answere is also "REAL" simply. They are our allies, they are our neighbors, and as just happened in britain, and will continue to happen in our allie's countries, BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR ALLIES, and thus on our side. that doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out. What we do tends to rub off on those with which we associate.

Tim · #87 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by segep soch

I still don't see this "hate" you keep talking about.

An American city is attacked. Thousands die, including many from outside the US. These people were simply in the middle of a work day. That was their "crime". A majority of the citizens of the neighbor nation believe the country that was attacked is guilty. They do not find fault with the attackers.

That is hate.

doniston · #88 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad_Michael

So it is 'thought crimes' that you seek to punish? That is fascism pure and simple.

Or are you just assuming that you know who's guilty and who's not? (that is theocracy, pure and simple).

Your argument is entirely hypothetical and requires that I think and act like you would do under similar circumstances. That is a deeply flawed assumption that your argument is predicated upon.

The fact is that 5 years since 9/11 hasn't shown much evidence of secret terrorist cells around the world plotting destruction and mayhem. A few wannabee copycats certainly, but usually very young, amateurish and lacking the funding, planning and organisation that marked the real 9/11 attack.

On a scale of present danger, lightning striking me is a far greater concern than a terrorist attack. I like to keep some perspective.

No, the greater tragedy is to go around seeking violent revenge upon people who didn't perpetrate the offense. That policy has a tendency to produce even greater response down the road.

9/11 was caused by a long string of American actions in recent history. This doesn't say it is right or justified. Just that it is.

To pretend that 9/11 was caused entirely out of the blue by madmen who just woke up one day and said "lets hate the USA and kill a bunch of them" is the most absurd thing in the world. They had their reasons and you may not like those reasons or may disagree with those reasons, but that doesn't negate the validity of those reasonings to those people.

Well said, I agree. (and I'm sure that comes as a GREAT surprise to everyone on the board.)HE HE HE

doniston · #89 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus1124

No, I am saying their propensity to succeed is irrelavant to the fucking discussion we are having which is what MOTIVATES these people. If you plan or commit a terrorist act you should be prosecuted (or killed) regardless of your motives. I will leave "hate crimes" abominations (punishing people more because their motives are viewed as worse than other's who have committed the same crimes) to the left where they belong.

Really? Who is the one dismissing the example of the Candadian plotters because they were caught? Certainly you cannot be dismissing them merely based on appearance? Wouldn't that be profiling? Certainly you cannot believe that their youth precluded them committing succesful attrocities, ever here of Columbine?

Actually, terrorists are planning and plotting daily, and attacking daily...just not here. Is it because they are more interested in hitting other places, or because we are now doing a far more effect job of keeping them off balance and preventing them from succeeding?

By the way, how long will you support "negotiating" with Iran to stop them from getting nuclear weapons? As long as we did with North Korea? Would you support whatever it takes to prevent Iran from getting nukes? Just curious .

No, 9/11 was caused by people who's stated goals (whatever else they may SAY) is the destruction of ALL infidels. We may be first and foremost on their list, but only a fool would listen to only part of what they are saying.

Also, while it was not CAUSED by, it certainly RESULTED from the LACK of action on the part of our nation. Failure to go after them with the full might and determination of our nation from the day they first bombed the World Trade Center.

Liberals run around screaming about how Bush "took his eyes of the ball" by going to Iraq and not catching Bin Laden for now five years after 9/11. Well liberals were too pathetic to even realize their WAS a ball back in February of 1993 when they first attacked! Clinton had almost EIGHT YEARS and did absolutely positively NOTHING.

Marcus, I am puttting this here because it was your post that prompts the question , but it goes to all with a like compulsion.

How is it so many of you continue to concentrate on past history, where nothing can be done insted of concentrating on the present where things CAN be accomplished. What Clinton did or did not do. What Bush I did or did not do, or Carter, or ford, or whom-so -ever. CAN NOT BE UNDONE so go on from here. instead of harping on the past.

doniston · #90 (**permalink**) 09-12-2006

[quote=Marcus1124;797783]They become terrorists because they are evil extremists who's stated goal is to kill ALL infidels. Don't believe me, then take it from Bin Laden:

Quote:
"We should fully understand our religion. Fighting is a part of our religion and our Sharia [an Islamic legal code]. Those who love God and his Prophet and this religion cannot deny that. Whoever denies even a minor tenet of our religion commits the gravest sin in Islam."

QUOTE] and even that, an inch and a few lines following your statement does not say what you suggest it says. He does not say he wants to kill all of us. THAT IS "YOUR" SPIN.

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