On the 1st Oct. this year the Nationalrat will be elected once again in Austria. Its the most important election of Austria we are allready in a hefty phase of campaigning. No need to see that the niveau has allready reached somewhat subterranean regions.

The Parties that are elected into the Nationalrat will afterwards try to form some kind of coalition that has a majority, which will be the basis for a new government.

The following parties compete in all Bundesländer in the elections:

ÖVP (Österreichische Volkspartei, the conservatives)
SPÖ (Sozialdemokratische Parei Österreichs, the social democrats)
FPÖ (Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs, far right party, if not right extreme)
GRÜNE (the green party, ecosocial party, but also has more libertarian greens)
BZÖ (splinter party from the FPÖ, long story... Haider blew up the FPÖ some time ago and formed the BZÖ with loyals, leaving the even more extreme right wingers in the FPÖ. effectively the BZÖ is a determined to fail. Unlike the remaining FPÖ)
KPÖ (Communist party of Austria, yep the real Communists, exist since the foundation of the 2nd Republic, and since than have their stable 1% at all elections)
Liste Dr. Martin (a one man party but with the help of the most powerfull newspaper of Austria, the Kronen Zeitung. Dr Martin is currently member of the European Parliament but will have to step back if he gets into the Austrian Nationalrat. Why he wants to change his European Parliamentarian against the Austrian Parlamentarian post remains uncleared. But he definitely proves the power of the Kronen Zeitung, that allrady at the European elections mobilize above 10% of the voters to choose "their" candidate (they of course do not openly admit that it it their official candidate)

To your information the current government is a ÖVP-BZÖ coalition. Whereas the BZÖ is of such great insignificance that one could say its the ÖVP governing alone. Only in the field of minority rights in Carinthia were a pathetic crude fight about something irrational like two lingual village signs take place that allready led to setting in question of the constitutional court and its decissions. But thats another long long, somehow allready funny story.


As much as I can see the election campaigns nearly exclusively consists of negative campaigning. People might know why not to vote for the other party, but the reason why one should vote for a party has not been answered by anyone. The sole party that might be an exception is the Green Party. It mostly kept itself out of the low level blame game, mostly though due to the reason that it rellies on voters (mostly of high education) who would be very sensitive concerning that. The Greens would for sure harm itself much more with that than the others.


If anyone has questions, dont hestitate, I'll do my best to answer them.


This thread might be continued (and updated)....

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

Austria voted today! (I did of course too)

The results are not fix but show a picture of surprise:

SPÖ 35,7 (-0,8) (Social Democrats)
ÖVP 34,2 (- 8,1) (Conservatives)
FPÖ 11,2 (+1,2) (far right demagogues)
Grüne 10,5 (+1,0) (green party)
BZÖ 4,2 (far right splinter party)
Martin 2,8 (anti corruption party)
KPÖ 1,1 (+0,6) (the communists)

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

Well ... quite a blow for Schüssel and his party, isn't it?

Yes it is, and a large surprise for the whole country. Even the Social democrats have been surprised. I dont know how much you know about the whole situation in Germany, as far as I reckognized, the Austrian elections are as important currently as issue in Germany as when a bycicle gets demolished in China. Anyway, there has been a huge scandal and blow where the ÖGB (Österreichischer Gewerkschaftsbund, our union) and its "house-bank" the BAWAG has been involved. A scandal that nearly pushed the ÖGB into bankruptcy. It was generally believed that this issue will hurt the SPÖ significantly. Somehow it didnt.

But the result is still not complete. People here are still excited as everything could turn around in the next days. Never before where the "Wahlkarten" voters (voters with an election card who dont vote in their own village or city) of such significance. They will be the essential rest that decide if the BZÖ gets into the Parliament (4% are needed to get into it). Traditionally are the conservatives and the Greens favoured by Wahlkarten voters.

If the BZÖ should fail to enter the Parliament in the end, everything will change. The seats will be distributed to the other parties with the effect, that eventually even a red-green majority could appear, while the black-blue-orange (ÖVP-FPÖ-BZÖ) one disappears.

So everything is still very shaky and the definite result is not to be expected before the end of this week. Its definitely the most exciting and uncertain result Austria had for a long time in its democratic history.


WRT Schüssel. In case a great coalition should once again enter the poltical stage in Austria, and connect to the long tradition of great coalitions of the pre 2000 era, one thing is for sure: Schüssels days are counted as Schüssel is the personification of the conservative break with the great coalition.

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

A lot more interesting than US elections!

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Don't startle him, Joe - it's almost full!

It was not allways that way. Many years it was completely different. You went to the election voted either Red or Black, and knew allready before that both parties will form a great coalition anyway.

Thats even less exciting than the US elections

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

Interesting result, especially considering that most elections in Europe go to the right recently. 15.4 % for the FPÖ and BZÖ is somewhat worrying given that they already participated in government and apparently didn't get decimated. I seem to be missing a party too. What party do christian democrats and classical liberals ('capitalists') vote for ? Both for the conservatives ? In that case, they're quite small with 34%, you bunch of lefties
Any thoughts on the consequences (if any) for the role in the EU of Austria ?

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"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder

Austria does not have a libertarian tradition. And the Conservatives once (in the first Republic before the thought raising a dictatorship is more fun than that lame democracy) were called the "Christian social pary". The FPÖ had a strong libertarian branch in the pre-Haider era. There even existed a SPÖ-FPÖ (pre-Haider) coalition for a short time. Nowadays libertarians either have to choose the black or the red. Most of them will vote black as the conservatives still is the part for the economy. But the former Libertarian party (splinter party from the FPÖ after Haider took over and got into a fight with that part of his party) had no a good stand, the left politicians of it funnily joined the Social democrates. Because if you look at social issues apart from economic stuff, they have also things in common with them.

WRT FPÖ I have to add that this is today a party that considers itself as opposition party again. As most of the figures that were directly involed in the coalition and the government left to the BZÖ they were not held responsible for the governmental actions.

Haider on the other side has been hardly hit by the coalition. He has been degraded to a local Carinithian politician. And if you look at the BZÖ in detail you will see that without Carinthia it would not have made it into the Parliament.

Both parties FPÖ and BZÖ deny any connection to Nazi movments or German idiology. For example the FPÖ gives itself very "moderate". That means they get elected because they are xenophobes, anti-EU, for social help of the poor (of course Austrians only), but not because they call themselve Nazis. If they should go just a step further an reveal their real face they would disappear politically overnight I guess.

I dont think one can compare the NPD with the FPÖ


WRT role of Austria within the EU. The reserved but principally Europepan friendll attitude of the Government won't change. But it will be probable that Austria will be more often opposing thiings, as the majority is consevative in the council. The ideas of the former government were quite in line with the European mainstream, that perhaps changes a bit. Not too much but certainly to the left. In case the social democratic movement gains a majority in Europe again. I am sure the direction of the EU will change (again. Like the last time when the conservatives took over)

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

What exactly does the Österreichische Volkspartei stand for? I looked at their website and they don't really say much of anything at all, just that they want to promote progress in Austria. They may be a conservative party in Austria, but that is all relative as they still seem pretty liberal when placed in an American context. What do they stand for (not what they say, but what they actually do) in terms of economics, the environment, and personal liberties? They seem to support market forces for driving the economy, but how much do they really involve the government in the economy?

During the last years, the had plenty of time to show what they stand for I guess. Especially in the last years the coalition party (the once feared FPÖ, later on BZÖ from Haider) was hardly at all reckognizeable as the ÖVP alone dictated the policies.

One of the major points in economic terms they made was to considerably cut down the taxes for capital companies (GesmbH's and AG's, comparable to Ltd's and PLC's) Furthermore they forced a strong privatisation trend. Whereas the greatest motivation for that was to make them as fast as possible to money. Apart of course from the fact, that they principally are not really fans of too large state industries. Those privatisations often took place below value and in my eyes did not much in order to improve the budget. (Not that I oppose privatisation everywhere, but one should have the time to be able to demand the real worth of the companies).
Economically their policy as quite libertarian I would say. And it payed of at least if you look at the economic key datas. That doesnt however change the fact that the real incomes stagnated under conservative rule.

Another larger point, might be immigration politics. There they led to a significant restriction.

Education politics was in my eyes a mess. The reduced the budgets effectively. And the conservatives are the strict defenders of a two-way education system. That means that allready from the age of 10 to 14 there are two different school types. The European standard would be a "Gesamtschule", one school for all but with different classes. The opposition alllready for a long time allready demands a single school with different "performance-groups" which are flexible. Those that have been initially underrated can easily rise into a more demanding group. Those that really cant cope with it even with additional help get to another one that is a bit easier.

The conservatives oppose a gay marriage but support some special legal thing for gay couples. (with many of the rights of married people, but not all)

Moreover they are a party for farmers. Nearly all farmers of the whole country vote for them. Thats tradition someway also has influence on their policies.

In security terms, you know that Austria is officially neutral, they allways tried to get Austria a bit more involved in the world. That means also that they tried to get Austria nearer to NATO for example. They resigned a bit in that task as they reckognized that publically demand the weakening of the Neutral status, is polcitical suicide as the Neutrality might be one pilllr of patriotism here.

Towards the EU, it was a rather pro European government. It also helped that the majority in the EU is conservative too. So also they might have played the angel at home, they pretty much supported most of the poltics in Brussels. And I have heard that Schüssel was there more important than the official voting power might indicate. Not as least because he belonged lately allready to the longest serving members of the EU council. He had furthermore good ties to the EU commission president.

In environmental aspects its a mixed picture you get. Under their government eg wind power has risen to new heights for example. But currently they have reduced subsidies for it, although there still would be considerable potential. Of course they rather tend to see the cost side of environmental regulations. But there is no way that they would ignore environmental aspects like perhaps some parties in the US would do. After all, dont forget that the Green party got 10,4% of the votes this election. And they also get conservative voters if they think the ÖVP cares to less for the environment. So all parties in Austria follow a rather high minimal standard of protecting it.
Perhaps an achievement that is partially due to the ÖVP rule on this policy field is, that today Austria is the leading country on the field of organic farming. You get organic produced food at every supermarket here, and not only that. Even discounters have allready organic food offers.


Ok that were the things that came into my mind. If you have question on a specific topic, I have not included sufficiently here, just ask me.

BTW the precedessor of the ÖVP in the first Republic was called "Christian-social-Party" (die "Chrislich-Sozialen"). It was the party that abandonned democracy in order to get rid of the Socialist majority and to build up a fascist dicatorship. Nowadays or better said, allready since the beginning of the secound Republic (after WWII) it has become a fully democratic party, which does not hinder them to still honour the christian social politicians, they still see in them some sort of defenders against communism and the Nazis for the Austrian independance. While they tend to play down the fact that the cost for this opposition to communism and Nazis was the creation of a fascist state following the Italian model (of coures without the expansionist politics of Italian style).
A special thing about Austria might be the high tradition for consensus. You know in the around 1930 there was civil war taking place here. The socialist (not to confuse with communist) house army fought against the christian social one. Therefore after WWII consensus was a very high aim. That can be also seen whe you look at the list of governments in Austria. At least half of the time of the existance of the second Republic we had a large coalition between the SPÖ and the ÖVP. Schüssel stood for a Schisma to this concept. So its generally believed that with a recreation of a large coalition, he will have to step back.

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

The multi tiered school system for the upper grades has always been odd to me. Maybe this is a result of our bleaker history in which we segregated schools, but there is an inherent unfairness in labeling somebody a lesser student and forcing them into a lower school. Students mature at different paces and having everyone in the same school allows for those who don't mature as fast as others to have a chance at going to college. The Gymnasium also restrains the exceptionally bright students. They have little choice and are forced to take only acedemic courses, wheres having all students in one school allows those in the top of their class to also take a few interesting courses such as photography or automotive repair in addition to their academic classes. The music programs at the Gymnasiums also don't seem very good. Musicians tend to do much better in school and I find it odd that the best musicians attend evening classes at specialized music schools while the public school programs just aren't very strong. Austrian schools are having money issues, and I find that ridiculous considering they utilize limited amounts of technology and have very little in terms of special programs (athletics, for example, are a big part of a high school budget). The notion of a student in public schools having to buy any textbooks is simply unheard of in the U.S, and we are supposed to be known for our bad public education system.

Damn..I've been hoping they would relax the rules barring dual citizenship. (I know, very unlikely given today's opinion of immigrants in Austria) My wife would love to take Canadian citizenship, but she can't, because she'll lose her Austrian citizenship. It seems they only let you keep it if you are a famous movie star, or run for governor. I won't ever be able to get Austrian citizenship for the same reason.

I've always disliked this about the Austrian education system. I think the best clue that the system isn't working is the extremely low number of students who transfer up to the Gymnasium. It's impossible that they are nearly 100% correct in determining whether someone is capable of going to University by grade 5 or 9. Therefore, the system is simply too inflexible to allow for the varying rates of development of children.

Well, that's surprising to me. I didn't know that Austrians would support this type of 'equality'. Perhaps it's just the attitudes of the few Austrians I've talked to about it (more rural, older, more conservative).

You've got it. If you are famours, or even better, a famous artist, you get the double citizenship faster than you could say, "Austria". (look at Ms. Netrebko for example)

The system is supposed to change now. How much is the question but the hardes defender of it, the educatin minister Gehrer, the most hated politician among pupils, students, teachers, professors etc (and that allready for over a decade) has for sure to resign now. (at least when a large coalition comes).

But to understand the system and its defenders, you have to know that the conservatives are still very class conscious. They get nightmire at the idea that the talented people have to go to the same school as the stubborns. Its somehow like they would still consider that to be a non-working communist idea. They couldnt be wronger. And the Hauptschule proves it allready day by day. There such a differenitiated system is allready existing, and it works fine (it exists just for the main subjects though). the The first (=best) level of Hauptschule often even surpasses Gymnasien in the quality of education.

Going to a Hauptschule btw is no reason why not aiming at studying. Take me as example. I was never in the Gymnasium but in the Hauptschule. In this respect, the system is at least very flexible.



I do think that the majority supports a special legal structure for gay couples to have some legal protection. Like the possibility to heir from each other, or stuff like this. Opposition to giving them the right to raise childrens might be considerable especially in the conservative spheres, though.
When have you been here? There might be still many people with very conservative views about the gay issue. For example a well known Austrian actor outed himself years ago. At that time people were still shocked, but it had no consequences for him, he still moderates the Vienna Opera Ball at the TV broadcast. One of the most prestigious society event in Austria.

And if you look at the "Life Ball" that takes place every year in Vienna, (the largest Aids benefice event in Europe) where the whole gay and bi community gathers together, you might be surprised how many heteros are joining the event. Because its fun.

There still could be a significant number that is very intolerant versus gays. But I could not quantify them. In my family there are for sure also some that are not the largest fans of the concept. But if they would be confronted personally in the family with that, I think they would overcome it.

In political terms. If a politician should hide his gayness and the political competition uncovers it and makes him bad due to it, I am pretty sure that it would no one else hurt than that political competition.

Perhaps though many people that think bad about gayness, dont say that publically, because they would look too intollerant. But even they have to live with that house in Vienna that can be seen even from the metro:

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Vienna Central-Cementery:
"Half the size of Zürich, but twice the fun"

What do you think the odds are of this policy changing in the next few years? Perhaps a harmonization of immigration policy within the EU? I must admit to not knowing enough about how the EU works..

Well, I hope the system does change. I have no problem with the overall quality of education possible, but with the class system incorporated into it. You're right, the Hauptshule already proves that such a system is possible, they should look at expanding a similar system.

Also, there is a problem with the minimum wages - they are tied to the type of school you attended. The end result is that a student who went to a Gymnasium, but then didn't go on to University right away, has troubles finding a small job somewhere pushing a broom to make some money. They would have to be paid more than someone else, so no-one will hire them. My wife had exactly this problem.

I've mainly been to Upper Austria, around Steyr. My wife's family lives around here. I didn't speak any German the last time I was there, though, so I could only speak with my (now) wife's family and close friends.

Quite the contrast here, where we have several popular openly gay politicians, including one running for the leadership of the Liberals. Are there any in Austria?

Damn it, I rebooted and lost my whole reply....