A fight over duty free cigarettes and alcohol led to the polish coast guard firing warning shots at a german ship. Now diplomats are working to clean up the mess amidst already strained bilateral relations..

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...443547,00.html

Thats really sooo ridiculous what the Polish border control did. But with the government Poland has currently I really dont wonder about it.

Admittedly the ferry company is not without sin either, but she acted completely correctly during this incident, unlike the other side.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

Strange story - a cruise ship!

What is it about the current Polish government that makes you say with the government Poland has currently I really dont wonder about it.?

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

He might wanted to say what the curious specialities the current Polish government has while it's being located today in the US embassy in Poland.

Take a look at it and you know what.

The President and the Prime Minister are twins, so much for the independance of both offices, they have a coalition with far right parties that even overfly the Austrian FPÖ in their views. They support christian fundamental radio stations that even the Vatican opposes, due to their open antisemitism and xenophoby.

The twins are member of a so called anti corruption party, while they tried to bribe a Parlamentarian (there exists video proof) just to remain in power only recently. Not to forget that they created a new ice age in the German Polnish relations, which is no wonder as they dont miss any chance where they could tell everyone what they think about Germans.

Shall I go on?


PS:
The Polnish people are totally fine. I know several of them, and they are really nice.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

I agree, what's going in Poland right now politically is totally ridiculous.

I also know quite a few Polish people and they worry about the reputation of the country. Nevertheless there is a very strong nationalism in Poland as well as a wide spread anti-Germanism for historical reasons in a very wide range of the popultation. The fear of losing national identity is particularly strong in Poland.

We cannot blame the gov. for that, since it got elected it is a reaction to these feelings. Worrying indeeed,...

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Well said, agreed.
And true about the Polanders, nothing wrong with them.
Oleg. Would you prefer that Poland would be ruled by puppets placed by Moscow, then?

To be honest, with the polnish students I met yet, I never talked about politics. There are better and for sure more entertaining things to do than that. But I guess none of those I met were fans of stubborn-nationalism like their heads of state

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

I also only met university students who went abroad. So we can say that for sure they are not representative for the entire population.
Nevertheless they reported that there is a new form of nationalism in the population which is much heavier and wider spread than in most other European countries. Just look at Russia or Poland for new nationalistic pride and the new Anti-semitism, or the Baltic states and the problems with their national minorities (Russians) etc.

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Why is patriotism viewed by federalists as such a terrible thing, unless it is fabricated Euro-patriotism?

It is an insult to all nations to imply that patriotism leads to fascism or even nationalism, and is very defeatist. Who on earth could begrudge Poland a feeling of national pride, considering its tortured history and key role in the fall of Communism? Euroscepticism in Poland is inevitable and very healthy. It is good that the twins seek to forge close ties with the UK.

Also, all the so-called 'federalist' nations were quick to slam the door on Poles and others as regards working rights.

Poland is our only ally in the EU, and long may that continue.

We talked about nationalism, not patriotism. Thats something different, in case you are not able to find the difference for yourself there is no need to continue the discussion.

Why are you and Adrian so hostile in response to Britain? It seems like an over-reaction to me.....

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Well, I was hostile, but now I'm moderate... Patriotism is okay, but a display of patriotism is akin to bragging, and vulgar, and probably fake to boot.

Of course, you hardly believe to my words, because of my Russian totalitarian barbaric nature which is treacherous, imperialistic and hostile in it's origin, but tell me - don't you think, that the political marionette ruling always hurts the traditions and reputation of the statehood and independence, without regard to the host-country which implants the puppet? As follows from your post, yet the proxy regime in Poland is acceptable while it's not the Moscow's hand in it - and that really has some sense even from our viewpoint. Today there is no need to have talks to Warsaw on any political, economical or diplomatic questions and waste time - much easier simply to put the issue into the basket of the political trade with Washington and communicate to the command desk directly. When the matter is settled the Poles are merely phonecalled from the District Columbia and execute the directives quick and good.

Well, the online dictionary defines nationalism as;


na‧tion‧al‧ism  /ˈnæʃənlˌɪzəm, ˈnæʃnəˌlɪz-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nash-uh-nl-iz-uhm, nash-nuh-liz-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. national spirit or aspirations.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism.
3. excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
4. the desire for national advancement or independence.
5. the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
6. an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation.
7. a movement, as in the arts, based upon the folk idioms, history, aspirations, etc., of a nation.

Only one of 7 definitions contains anything that could be remotely construed as destructive or offensive. Indeed, one of the definitions would argue that patriotism and nationalism are the same thing. What is the problem with definitions 2 and 4, which I believe are strong in Poland?
My point is that a smear campaign awaits any administration that dares defy the conformist EU line and safeguard or attempt to advance its own national interests.

Adrien- I completely agree that noisy, triumphalist patriotism is vulgar and offensive. in Britain we used to have a reserved, assured patriotism that has largely given way to brainless, xenophobic little Englanders who care nothing about the UK or it's heritage. The 60s is to blame for that. But i don't see any of this in Poland. And what of EuroPatriotism, seen in such abundance on this site? Such people must hate the scenes seen in Germany at WC06...are you suggesting that all the supporters at the tournament deserve to be called as such?

Tim- A hostile response is guaranteed for anyone who questions the EU or its workings. Social conservatives in Europe are largely treated as children who somehow need to be enlightened or liberated from their childish cravings.

Oleg- Surely you aren't trying to compare Poland's solidarity with the US to the Warsaw Pact?