Your disbelief is not my problem, proUSA. It's the truth, whether you choose to believe me or not. Most folks I know up here laugh at me when I lock the car door and the door to the house- they say I'm being paranoid, though I think it's just common sense.

Of course I know you'll disbelieve me, if for no ther reason than I'm a liberal that has been trying to tell you conservatives the truth for a long time now in this and other forums over the last three and half years, a truth that has become manisfestly and increasingly evident due to situations and events that I had absolutely nothing to do with and had absolutely no control over. To bad that some people still refuse to believe what they see right in front of their eyes and continue to insist that the delusion they believe in is the truth, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary that has come to light over the last several years. But, like I said, that is not my problem.

Gem

__________________
There is no political solution to our troubled evolution.

"Reality, the left-wing liberal conspiracy. "
Credited to Angry American.

You mean perspective like the fact that the terrorists weren't blowing up hundreds of people per day in Iraq throughout most of the 90's and into the first three years of the new millenium- until Bush&Co decided to invade Iraq?

Gem

__________________
There is no political solution to our troubled evolution.

"Reality, the left-wing liberal conspiracy. "
Credited to Angry American.

What do you mean, "The difference between us"? Have you ever heard me me make any references to calling soldiers in general "baby killers" or other such? Besides, you were the one that said that Sen. Murtha was wrong, and it appears that you need to make a retraction of your statement. But I notice how deftly you chose to avoid making the admission that you were wrong in your beliefs about Sen.Murtha in your reply to me here. Why is that?

Did you know that, in the 60's, I got into more than a few heated "discussions" with our fellow anti war folks about how they shouldn't go making the insinuations that ALL soldiers were baby killers or that they shouldn't go spiting on our returning soldiers either- that the real problem was the folks in power that put them there in the first place. But you, in your infinite wisdom, didn't know that about me, did you? I bet you didn't know that I also supported Bush Jr., the President I didn't vote for in either election, when he decided to invade Afghanistan and go after bin Laden after 9/11 either. I think you and a few others here and elsewhere need to back up a step or two and come to grips with the reality that you don't know me as well as you think you do.

Gem
and

__________________
There is no political solution to our troubled evolution.

"Reality, the left-wing liberal conspiracy. "
Credited to Angry American.

Your wrong, terrorists were killing tens of thousands of Iraqis throughout the 90's. The only difference is that the terrorist was their dictator and his henchman. And, in fact, the US, UK and initially, the French, did try to do something about it. They established a northern and southern No-fly Zone specifically to prevent Saddam Hussein from carrying out genocidal attacks against the Kurds in the north and Shia in the south.
So, in the future, come armed with a few facts if you want to do battle here.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

Weren't those Shia killed as a result of the failed assassination attempt on Saddam, the attempt that was made at Bush Sr.&Co's request and who bailed on them after the attempt failed?
Those are the Shia that you are referring to, right?

Are those the kind of facts that you think I need to armed with, jpsartre12 ?

Gem

__________________
There is no political solution to our troubled evolution.

"Reality, the left-wing liberal conspiracy. "
Credited to Angry American.

Those amongst others that opposed Saddam's regime over the years.
And what GW, Sr did or didn't do has no bearing on what GW, Jr did do.
If GW, SR had not listened to the UN and Powell, who told him that the people of Iraq would overthrow SH on their own OR had supported the Shia Revolution, GW, Jr would bnever have sent troops into Iraq.
At least a modicum of historical perspectivew would be sufficient in most instances. Simply knowing the US' shortcomings in specific instances doesn't paint a complete picture. It just leaves you gullable enough to believe trolls like moon.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

Show me where I stated that Murtha was wrong? You can't because I didn't make that claim, Jotathought did. So try aiming your scattergun at the appororiate target.
When appropriate, I will admit to errors. From your Leftist postings in this thread, I did make certain assumptions. If, as you say, you defended US soldiers during the Vietnam War then I applaud that effort and apologize for assuming otherwise.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

You would ? Regardless ?


Jpsartre;
I've only got about six hours. Is that enough ?

__________________
668.....the neighbour of the beast.

Between 66 and 69, the US averaged about 1/2Million troops in Vietnam. How many were involved in My Lai? Answer:26. So, in your opinion, 1/2 Million brave soldiers should be placed into the same category as the 26 soldiers acting illegally? Typical move.......for a troll. Now, back under the bridge.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

Let's not completely ignore the topic; foul murder of helpless men, women and children by US soldiers.

It is scurrilous to attempt to stuff that wound with innocent soldiers from another campaign.

By your example the My Lai murderers would have their crimes lessened by comparison with innocent soldiers form Iojima. It's a disgusting ruse designed to shelter the guilty.

__________________
668.....the neighbour of the beast.

You are truly an amazing example of hypocricy at its finest. YOU'RE the one that brough Vietnam into the conversation, not me.
No, yours was an unsuccessfukl attempt to link an isolated incident from over 30 years ago to the actions of a few today. I'm amazed at the depths that your trolling will take.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

Backwards on a monocycle. It's you that's applauding support for the troops in Vietnam, regardless. In a thread condemning the alleged foul behaviour of troops your comments are inappropriate. The 'troops right or wrong' stance is scurrilous and your references to the behaviour of troops NOT involved in rape, torture and mass murder do not a fig leaf make. Their behaviour is the norm and this thread concerns the filth among them and attempts at disguising that filth, attempts to which you clearly would like to subscribe.

Under the circumstances, your piddling blanket support for troops in Vietnam is worse than your usual patriot pyjamas.


No regiment should be a refuge for criminals in uniform and incidents such as My Lai should NEVER be allowed to be forgotten, or misted over by the scurrilous.

__________________
668.....the neighbour of the beast.

You are correct, it was jotathought and not you that I was responding to. As with you, I too am more than willing to apologize for an error, though my error here was not what I was saying but was the relatively minor mistake of getting your names mixed up. Would you admit that Jotathought was wrong about Sen. Murtha though? I've seen a lot of the Bush&Co/war supporters in various venues say the Sen. Murtha was wrong and condemn those of us that believed Murtha was correct in what he said about the incident in Haditha. That apparently makes those of us on the Left the ones that were correct. Would you be willing to consider the possibility that there's been quite a few things that US liberals have been trying to tell those of you that supported Bush&Co that might just have been right?

I also accept your apology.
Thank you!

Gem

__________________
There is no political solution to our troubled evolution.

"Reality, the left-wing liberal conspiracy. "
Credited to Angry American.

No, and I'll tell you my reasons for saying so.
Here's one of Murtha comments" there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."
1. Murtha condemned the Marines before they were even tried. In a country founded on the belief that a man is innocent until PROVEN guilty, that's an inexcusable act.
2. Murtha wasn't outraged by the event, he was politicking. He took an isolated incident and turned it into a "reason" why we should withdraw our troops from Iraq.
3. Murtha, by making a front page spectacle of the event, gave terrorists another recruiting tool and that, too, is inexcuaable.

So, while Murtha may have been right in his statement, he certainly wasn't right in turning the event into his own little crusade against the war. It was one of the most lowdown, abhorrent political tactics that I'd ever seen that had repercussions far beyond his political career. IMO, the old bastard should have been thrown in jail after Abscam.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

I feed your trolls because I occasionally get a kick out of the absurd claims that you make. If you want a pissing contest instead, I can do that, too.
Agreed. But only an unscrupulous person would use an isolated illegal action committed by 26 people to incict 1/2 people. That's a broadbrush stroke that is disengenuous and conniving.

__________________
843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution