Haditha - Page 5 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

jpsartre12 · #61 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

Let's not beat around the bush, we'll go right to the absolutely deepest depths of depravity, courtesy of ol' Ronnie Reagan's "Freedom Fighters", the Contras, who had a fondness for sexual mutilation, and more sickening still, stuffing hand grenades into men's mouths and then forcing their children to watch as their fathers' heads would explode. And we probably shouldn't neglect to mention Rios Montt, who ordered the extermination of appr. 450 villages in Guatemala over a 16 month period. In both cases, the monsters who perpetrated these crimes against humanity were trained and funded by the CIA.

So, I advise you to think a wee bit before calling Palestinians animals, because the fact of the matter is that nothing any Palestinian has ever done exceeds the depravity that our own gov't is responsible for -- assuming that facts are of any concern to you, of course.

Nice try at deflecting the question. I'll ask again:
Now, give me an example where either the North or South carried out systematic attempts to assassinate members of the government.

gem · #62 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

Preconception is to bullet proof vests as truth is to bullets, eh?

You got it, Pogo! How we feel is dependent upon what we think, and what we think is dependent upon what we choose to focus on. And, of course, there's always that little buggaroo you mentioned known as "contempt prior to investigation" that can be thrown into the mix.
Personally what I'm seeing in all of this is a decline into an all- out regional conflict- a conflict that we've had a hand in creating with our unquestioning support of Israeli occupations and policies. There are those that would say I am an anti-Semite for saying that, but I'm not. I'm just "anti-WRONG"!!!

Gem

moon · #63 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

jpsartre;

Quote:

Nice try at deflecting the question. I'll ask again:
Now, give me an example where either the North or South carried out systematic attempts to assassinate members of the government.

What's this diversion, a fig leaf fitting ? Disgraceful. Lol.

jpsartre12 · #64 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by gem

You got it, Pogo! How we feel is dependent upon what we think, and what we think is dependent upon what we choose to focus on. And, of course, there's always that little buggaroo you mentioned known as "contempt prior to investigation" that can be thrown into the mix.
Personally what I'm seeing in all of this is a decline into an all- out regional conflict- a conflict that we've had a hand in creating with our unquestioning support of Israeli occupations and policies. There are those that would say I am an anti-Semite for saying that, but I'm not. I'm just "anti-WRONG"!!!

Gem

Your rhetoric belies your position. Israel is "occupying" the area that the UN designated as Palestine and later acknowledged as being the state of Israel.
I'm sorry that the Arabs in the ME didn't like that fact, but tough shit. The Ottoman Empire was defeated, just as they had defeated the Persians and Byzantines and to the victors went the spoils.

gem · #65 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

Your rhetoric belies your position. Israel is "occupying" the area that the UN designated as Palestine and later acknowledged as being the state of Israel.
I'm sorry that the Arabs in the ME didn't like that fact, but tough shit. The Ottoman Empire was defeated, just as they had defeated the Persians and Byzantines and to the victors went the spoils.

According to International Law a nation is entitled to temporarily occupy a nation or a territory for reasons of it's own security, but is not allowed to secure those nations or territories for it own corporate or private use as Israel has done in Palestine since 1967.

Also, the Ottoman empire was dissolved in 1918.

Quote:

The Ottoman Empire was a vast state founded in the late 13th century by Turkish tribes in Anatolia and ruled by the descendants of Osman I until its dissolution in 1918. Modern Turkey formed only part of the empire, but the terms ³Turkey² and ³Ottoman Empire² were often used interchangeably.

The current incarnation of Israel was not created until 1948- and the excerpt and link below reveal some of the consequences of the British defeat of the Ottoman empire.

Quote:

Map of Israel
Israel was created in 1948, after UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being. The territory allotted to the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was taken over by Israel and Jordan. About 780,000 Palestinians became refugees.

I found this paragraph further down in the article interesting too:

Quote:

Beginning in 1993, the Oslo agreements promised gradual withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Palestinians were hopeful that this process would end in a state for them. However, the peace process was marred by terrorist attacks, Israeli proliferation of settlements and negotiations that seemed to lead nowhere. Following breakdown of the final status negotiations in the summer of 2000, riots erupted in September 2000 when Israeli right wing political leader Ariel Sharon paid a controversial visit to the temple mount, in the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, holy to Muslims.. Palestinians refused to accept the agreement offered by US President Clinton in December 2000, and violence continued at least until the beginning of 2005. Israel has reoccupied large parts of the territory it had ceded to the Palestinians in the West Bank during the Oslo peace process, and continues to build settlements on Palestinian land.(click for map). Election of relatively moderate Mahmoud Abbas as Palestinian Authority President and the Israeli disengagement plan (withdrawal from Gaza and four West Bank settlements) offer new hope of peace.

Who is the real aggressor and violator here?

Gem

gem · #66 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

jpsrtr12 states:

Quote:

I'm sorry that the Arabs in the ME didn't like that fact, but tough shit. The Ottoman Empire was defeated, just as they had defeated the Persians and Byzantines and to the victors went the spoils.

I like your "might makes right" approach. It intrigues me. Sure gotta love the results!

Gem

jpsartre12 · #67 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by gem

According to International Law a nation is entitled to temporarily occupy a nation or a territory for reasons of it's own security, but is not allowed to secure those nations or territories for it own corporate or private use as Israel has done in Palestine since 1967.

Also, the Ottoman empire was dissolved in 1918.

The current incarnation of Israel was not created until 1948- and the excerpt and link below reveal some of the consequences of the British defeat of the Ottoman empire.

I found this paragraph further down in the article interesting too:

Who is the real aggressor and violator here?

Gem

I'm getting tired of giving ME history lessons to people whose only knowledge of the region comes from 4 paragraphs derived from a google search, so I'll pass on this one.

Pogo · #68 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

Nice try at deflecting the question. I'll ask again:
Now, give me an example where either the North or South carried out systematic attempts to assassinate members of the government.

Why should I when what I provided is more than sufficient to show that your assertion that the Palestinians are animals is hypocritical rubbish?

gem · #69 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

I'm getting tired of giving ME history lessons to people whose only knowledge of the region comes from 4 paragraphs derived from a google search, so I'll pass on this one.

That isn't the reason you're passing and you know it. Tell me something truly relevant to the topic that I don't know.

Gem

Pogo · #70 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

I'm getting tired of giving ME history lessons to people whose only knowledge of the region comes from 4 paragraphs derived from a google search, so I'll pass on this one.

Feel free to link to one of these "history lessons" of yours. I can hardly wait.

jpsartre12 · #71 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

Why should I when what I provided is more than sufficient to show that your assertion that the Palestinians are animals is hypocritical rubbish?

You're the one that attempted to use the Civil War as an example. And when I pointed out that it wasn't even a weak example by asking you to give an example of either the Confederate or Union governments trying to assassinate each other, you came up empty and attempted to deflect the question.

You didn't answer the question because you can't find an example, admit it.

jpsartre12 · #72 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

Feel free to link to one of these "history lessons" of yours. I can hardly wait.

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

UN Observer; 'Israel is a terrorist state'

You asked for it.

Pogo · #73 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

You're the one that attempted to use the Civil War as an example. And when I pointed out that it wasn't even a weak example by asking you to give an example of either the Confederate or Union governments trying to assassinate each other, you came up empty and attempted to deflect the question.

You didn't answer the question because you can't find an example, admit it.

I mentioned the Civil War because you were making such a fuss about Palestinians killing Palestinians. Since you seem to think that it's somehow noteworthy that the factions target each others' leadership, perhaps you'd care to take a stab at explaining how it's more depraved than slicing women's breasts off or forcing children to watch their fathers' heads explode?

gem · #74 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

You're the one that attempted to use the Civil War as an example. And when I pointed out that it wasn't even a weak example by asking you to give an example of either the Confederate or Union governments trying to assassinate each other, you came up empty and attempted to deflect the question.

You didn't answer the question because you can't find an example, admit it.

From out of the blue...

Quote:

John Wilkes Booth shoots President Lincoln at Ford's Theater; Secretary of State William H. Seward is stabbed and wounded in an assassination attempt inside his Washington home.
http:///www.paperlessarchives.com/cw...nal_and_g.html

Quote:

When Abraham Lincoln was elected president on November 6, 1860, Booth wrote a long speech that decried what he saw as Northern abolitionism and made clear his strong support of the South and the institution of slavery.

Quote:

Hatching the plot

Booth began devising a plan to kidnap Lincoln from his summer residence at The Soldiers' Home outside of Washington and smuggle him across the Potomac and into Richmond. He would be exchanged for the release of around 10,000 Southern soldiers held captive in Northern prisons. He successfully recruited his old friends Samuel Arnold and Michael O'Laughlin as accomplices. At this time, Booth had been also speculating in oil in Pennsylvania.

Quote:

Possible ties to the Confederacy
In the summer of 1864, Booth met with several well-known Confederate sympathizers at The Parker House in Boston, Massachusetts. In October 1864 he made an unexplained trip to Montreal. At the time, Montreal was a well known center of clandestine Confederate activities. It is known that he spent ten days in the city and stayed for a time at St. Lawrence Hall, a meeting place for the Confederate Secret Service, and met at least one blockade runner there. It is possible that it was here that he also met Confederate Secret Service director James D. Bulloch as well as George Nicholas Sanders, a one-time US ambassador to Britain.

There has been much scholarly attention devoted to why Booth was in Montreal at this time, and what he was doing there. No solid evidence has ever linked Booth's kidnapping or assassination plot to a conspiracy involving any elements of the Confederate government, although this possibility had been explored at some length in two books; Nathan Miller's Spying For America and William Tidwell's Come Retribution: the Confederate Secret Service and the Assassination of Lincoln.

Gem

Pogo · #75 (**permalink**) 12-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsartre12

You asked for it.

OK, I read 2 of them. I guess you haven't heard but recently declassified IDF records acknowledge that it was the Zionists who initiated military aggression in conjunction with the declaration of Israeli statehood. Nor do you understand that UN General Assembly resolutions, unlike Security Council resolutions, do not have the force of law, so you are in error that the UN partitioned Palestine. The Zionists unilaterally established Israel prior to the UN implementing UNGA 181. Furthermore, if you'd given more than cursory thought to the matter, you'd realize that 181 could never have been carried out without a sizeable, neutral force to fill the vacuum left by the British withdrawal, so as to allow for an orderly transition.

Bookmarks
Digg	del.icio.us	StumbleUpon	Google

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode