I dont know how large the part of Paris is that is visited. But the magnificant old town of Paris goes far far far beyond that. My week long journey might not be representative for each part of Paris, but I was also much outside of the tourist hotspots. In fact I was not even at the Louvre (at least not inside).

As far as I can see it, is the old substance reaching till to the boarders of the city of Paris. No matter where you drive, you will see loads of historical buildings there. (

The large systematical areas of commie blocks start outside of the boarders of Paris in the banlieues. Ats least that is how I got it to see. I saw two banlieues, and metionworty should be that one of them was quite a nice place, with many newer large residential blocks but also older buildings with a nice town hall. (The second one pretty much was in all parts what the prejudice says about them btw )

So I would say, the area where you find the beautiful old Paris is at least the size of the complete urban Vienna. Of course are there modern buildings scattered inside of the city, but they either fit into the whole, or are an exception.

A met once a German who gave me the tip: "Visit everything, but the hell never go to the Ruhr Pot" jk

No Malvolio, I dont want to neglect what you are saying. It would be arrogant to say the Ruhr Pot has no qualities just because it lacks perhaps nice architectonic esembles I mean hey, outside of Europe its pretty much the rule, not the exception anyway.

Its a bit like with women. There are outside qualities, and inner ones. I can not judge about both regarding the Ruhr Pot, even though the image regarding the former thing is not all to high. But there is still the latter one left. And for people who live there its no question what is more important. But also travellers that are looking for more than the "instant Ahhhs and Ohhhs" will appreciate it far more to see if there are good internal values.


WRT Vienna. It can not compete on the vast area that looks so pitoresque like in Paris. Granted, the inner city can take it up with Paris, i dare to claim that. But Vienna is more real, the war did leave severe marks here. We have our fair share of ugly parts. But the point is neither the historic Vienna nor the nice parts are limited to the city core. I live in the periphery and the quarter is magnificant and pitoresque, even though not perfect. The interesting thing with Vienna is though that to the largest parts you have not large ugly parts, but those ugly parts are intermixed with beautiful ones in the periphery.

Slarti : I posted a message reg. the Ruhr and Berlin, just in case you missed it because it is the previous page .

I think there is "first sight" and there is "exploration" love - Also, a city you like to visit may not be the same you like to live in.

So yes, probably, as you're saying : "like a woman"

As far as Paris is concerned, it is simply so that there is no other city in Europe, which, on such a small area, concentrates so much history, from the Romans to the XXIth century, different architectural styles, art and culture. It is a concentrate of European cultural history, yet not a museum, but a living Capital City.

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La terre est bleue comme une orange.

Well what shall I say. You are most likely right about Ruhr and Berlin. Regarding Berlin I have heard that especially the cultural life is florishing. I dont know in how far one can say that from the Ruhr Pot, but I am sure with the European cultural capital 2010 we will see an active cultural hot spot as well.

Not that I would be an expert on women...
But in Germany at least the helpful dictionary "Frau-Deutsch / Deutsch-Frau" exists

I would be cautious about that. Its hard to beat Rome. In fact it depends on what you focus on, but Rome was of course unbeatable in the antics but also a centre of political power through the catholic church.

But of course, Paris for sure belongs to the greatest heavy weights in that regard.

Did you know that the highest commander of the German forces in Paris was ordered by Hitler to destroey the whole city completely before withdrawing the troops. Thank God that he ignored that order, otherwise Paris would now look like Berlin.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

I have heard that. I would have preferred the leading official of Ausschwitz ignoring the last commands of the Führer regarding total cleansing, instead of the leading official of Paris to ignore the command to destroy Paris.

But you can not change history. And as the former would not happened anyway, its at least a luck of history that Paris was saved, if nothing else.

The story about total destruction of Paris is quite known. Less known is that Hitler actually had ordered the total destruction of, at least, Berlin and Germany in general. This is probably less known because largest cities were bombed by the Allies anyway !

You know, what makes the war "visible" today is the fact that these towns were bombed and what has remained of them. This visibility makes the war emotionally close. At least, this was always my impression.

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La terre est bleue comme une orange.

I think this is at least in Austria also known by many as well. Hitler wanted to erase Germany as Germans had proved to be the weaker race and therefore did not deserve to survive. Hitler was on that point surprisingly consequent with his world view. Perhaps because he had already drawn the consequences for him personally and believed, whole Germany has to follow him into hell.

As far as I know Hitler also ordered the destruction of Vienna. In these days, however the lack of control was already beginning to get visible. The Nazis could however still mobilize large forces against the Russians, which eclipsed into a large last battle over the city, which did not really do much good for its buildings. But the resistance O5 started already to infiltrate the Nazi administration here. And it was no wonder that the new interim Austrian government could start its work already before the battles ended in Vienna.

I think we can thank much to this. The post war time in Austria saw politicians who succesfuly rebuilt a Republic that did not even exist in this neatly working way before the Austro facism. It certainly was also a master piece of political skills that the government from the very beginning on, when half of Austria still was in the hand of the Nazis had the support from all Allied countries.

Its irony of history that both Republics of Austria where founded by the very same man, isn't it? Like he would have needed two times to figure it out how to make it neatly working.


Yes, thats right.
In Vienna however not what was destroyed is the most signficant reminder of the war, but the single large buildings Hitler ever constructed in Vienna are: The Flak towers. In total its 6 monstrous towers in the inner districts that dominate many parts of them.

Are you living in the U.S or in Ireland?

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

I had a similar experience working in St. Louis. I lived in the north suburbs, about 15 miles north of the city center. I worked downtown, about four blocks from the Arch (at the recently destroyed Busch Stadium).

My employer offered me a monthly parking pass that cost $120. Riding the light rail at that time cost $40/month. I had the parking pass, but seldom used it. I asked my employer to instead pay for the train pass----& they could have even taken a tax-deduction to do so (something they couldn't do by offering me a parking pass!). In their infinite wisdom, they decided it might appear to other employees that I was enjoying an "extra" benefit that other employees did not enjoy. I talked to most of my co-workers about this, & they all agreed----management was made up of idiots & that none of them would have been offended in the slightest had my employer instead paid for my rail pass.

(I might add that a car commute took about 45 minutes, while the rail commute was about 25 minutes----and I could usually read the paper in my daily commute, something I was unable to do if driving myself to work----so I simply forked over the $40 every month & wondered why I worked for such idiots. . .)

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

Is this a story that took place long ago? Have things changed in the meanwhile at least a bit?

This sounds really so ... extreme.

1999 or so, I believe. . .

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson

Wow. Probably many will still think so then. Even today.

I thougt that was tax detuctable, it is in Denmark.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

A city I can think of which lives up to your high demands and at the same has a very central location in Europe is Frankfurt Am Main. Frankfurt am Main: Welcome

And as a little bonus the city looks a bit like an American city with a nice skyline in the financial district.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

I lived in Frankfurt about 30 years ago. I like it, but would like to try someplace new.

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."

Thomas Jefferson