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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
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China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device View Post
Really, it seems to me that who the President meets with is a purely domestic affair.
If your president meets an American citizen, of course it is domestic affair. If he meets people from outside, then not domestic affair. China have every rights to concern

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Please show me VOA trying to subvert the free press in canada.
Subverting China!! Do you know the world "Reciprocal"?

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Because 70 million fascists can't be wrong!
They can be wrong, but not in this matter.

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No a country will do what is in its interest. The threats of violence by China invalidate any claims you care to make about the governments 'statements'. The Fact is they have the qualities of sovereign independent nation. Their people are free and there is not a damned thing China can do about it.
At least China can asphyxiate any of their attempts in international communities. Chinese threat of violence only comes after their unilaterally changing civil war status quo.

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Awhhhhh poor China everyone is ganging up on them, and all their doing is butchering civilians on a daily basis, threatening their neighbors and whining incessantly.
Who is "everyone"?? Even continental Europe shows little concern over the missile tests, not to mention the vast majority of African, Latin American, SE Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Stop your attempt to replace "everyone" by a few American puppet states.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
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China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
Actually, China has in the past, particularly when US issues human rights reports. So, don't give me that bull.

PS, I understand, probably more than you do, why China does the criticism, and I am not Chinese.

America is issuing human rights reports about China, of course it is not American domestic affairs. If America is issueing human rights abuses in America, we don't care.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
Posts: 437

China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
You are definitely being given the hardline CCP rhetoric. The main reasons why Nixon wanted to open relations with China was first, a thorn to the USSR, and a political coup. He was still an anti-communist when he passed away in the 1990's.

As for the test, the US and USSR accomplished the same thing back in 1985. The main concern is the 10,000 pieces of debris that will fall into the earths atmosphere and create tensions around the globe. For that fact, it was the main reason why the US and USSR stopped the tests. And for missile developers, it was a major accomplishment, but the typical reaction is expected to criticize China's development.

I am not saying that Nixon is not anti-Communists. China broke up with USSR as early as 1960s. Due to the timing of Nixon's visit in Beijing, Vietnam War might be the most direct stimulation. China is very pragmatic in international affairs. We don't care what your ideology is. We don't like foreign government, especially USA, lecturing about some "democracy" or "freedom" or something else, because it is obviously so hypocritical. China is and will continue to democratize in a speed that is suitable for the majority of the Chinese. America is a very successful country, but China will fail miserably if just copying American systems.

For debris problem, since USA and USSR stoped experiments after having "First Hand" experience of the threat of debris, China will be happy to sign the ban for international space weapon tests. But Bush does not allow, so......
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
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China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
You have a lot to learn. President Roh of South Korea has exerted South Korean independence over Washington for some time. This is especially true with his sunshine policy, the takeover by the ROK Joint Korean Command, and other issues. But France, Germany, India, and Pakistan are not exactly on the best of terms with the US, yet they still criticized. Russia will not criticize because of the fledgling partnership with China's military. Any criticism on Russia will end that fairy tale of cooperation between the two countries.

Australia and S Korea might show some independence over American diplomatic control, but still S Korea relies on America heavily. S Korea's concern is also quite moderate.

France and Germany are almost diplomatically quiet compared with the countries that I listed. Indian concern is understandable. Pakistan even supported Tiananmen Incident in Beijing, I think Islamburg is more than happy about Chinese missle tests.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 5,382

United_States     Connecticut

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
If your president meets an American citizen, of course it is domestic affair. If he meets people from outside, then not domestic affair. China have every rights to concern
Bullshit. Do you see the US whining when China meets with the leaders of France? It's none of you're damn business if we meet with the Dalai Lama.

Further if whether China tests a weapon isn't our concern, you shouldn't object to US arms deals. I think a number of free PAC-3 systems outside Taipei would be a good way for the US to express its disapproval.

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Subverting China!! Do you know the world "Reciprocal"?
So China was being subverted by what? CSIS? Perhaps the Mounties snuck into China and began spreading out pamphlets.

Considering the Chinese Embassy has been seeking to intimidate Falun Gong members in Canada, and in Taiwan, you wouldn't like what reciprocity actually looked like.

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They can be wrong, but not in this matter.
No of course not, by supporting the organization which has killed millions of their countrymen and suppresses their rights, they are taking a perfectly rational approach.

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At least China can asphyxiate any of their attempts in international communities. Chinese threat of violence only comes after their unilaterally changing civil war status quo.
No China's threat of violence comes when they finally admit what everyone wants to know. China is make threats because it knows that it is weak and impotent it just doesn't want its people to know it.

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Who is "everyone"?? Even continental Europe shows little concern over the missile tests, not to mention the vast majority of African, Latin American, SE Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Stop your attempt to replace "everyone" by a few American puppet states.
Concern has been expressed by Russia, the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, South Korea. But I guess Russia is a puppet state of the US? Seems to me that is the vast majority of the presence in space.

Of all launches they represent 87%, of currently active satellites, 85%. So perhaps the reason you see these countries complaining, because we actually have a stake in the matter.

TSE - States and Organizations

Last edited by Thematic-Device; 01-24-2007 at 05:38 PM.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2004
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Posts: 2,625

United_States     China

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I am not saying that Nixon is not anti-Communists. China broke up with USSR as early as 1960s. Due to the timing of Nixon's visit in Beijing, Vietnam War might be the most direct stimulation. China is very pragmatic in international affairs. We don't care what your ideology is. We don't like foreign government, especially USA, lecturing about some "democracy" or "freedom" or something else, because it is obviously so hypocritical. China is and will continue to democratize in a speed that is suitable for the majority of the Chinese. America is a very successful country, but China will fail miserably if just copying American systems.

For debris problem, since USA and USSR stoped experiments after having "First Hand" experience of the threat of debris, China will be happy to sign the ban for international space weapon tests. But Bush does not allow, so......
I thought it was during the 1950's when Stalin was still alive, but anyway, Nixon's visit had some to do with Vietnam, but it was mainly used as a political coup to secure China against the USSR. As the Chinese proverb goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

I believe China's test was a one time affair showing that that it could do what the other superpowers have done. It was mostly for morale with very little strategic importance. As for the ban, I know of no government that is willing to negotiate such a treaty at this present time.

As for democracy, it is a fascinating time to see history in the making in China. I have not known the USA to overtly criticize China about democracy, but what you have to realize is that the US system is very unique. China could learn from the US as well as the US learning from China.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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United_States     China

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Australia and S Korea might show some independence over American diplomatic control, but still S Korea relies on America heavily. S Korea's concern is also quite moderate.

France and Germany are almost diplomatically quiet compared with the countries that I listed. Indian concern is understandable. Pakistan even supported Tiananmen Incident in Beijing, I think Islamburg is more than happy about Chinese missle tests.
But South Korea, and Australia are not puppet states of the US in any regard as was the same with China and Mongolia. The same goes with Pakistan, India, France, and Germany.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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United_States     China

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by winter6126 View Post
my english is so poor,so I don't understand your meaning very much.
my opinion:
if the US didn't critizize China on subject of human right,then China wouldn't criticize some WASP american racist.Chinese don't like play "World police" role,just American consider they are "world police",they are always right,they are always justical.your criticism cause Chinese angry,and we just counterstrike you.
we don't want to offend American,and we don't want to surrender to American.we just wish live in peace.

Chinese is Chinese,American is American.we are different.we are in different country,don't poke your nose into Chinese business.and we don't poke our nose into American business.
no war.peace,money,this is what Chinese want.
Agreed if any nation that criticizes another nation, that nation will respond. This includes US criticizing China over human rights violations and China then criticizing the US of the same. Just remember, it is part of the game that every nation plays.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: US
Posts: 2,625

United_States     China

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
America is issuing human rights reports about China, of course it is not American domestic affairs. If America is issueing human rights abuses in America, we don't care.
You are having a very perverse way of changing the definition, "domestic affair" in mid sentence.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
Luke Luke is offline
Lieutenant Governor

 
Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
Posts: 437

China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device View Post
Bullshit. Do you see the US whining when China meets with the leaders of France? It's none of you're damn business if we meet with the Dalai Lama.

Further if whether China tests a weapon isn't our concern, you shouldn't object to US arms deals. I think a number of free PAC-3 systems outside Taipei would be a good way for the US to express its disapproval.
You have the right to complain if you don't want Chinese leaders to meet with French leaders, because this is international affairs, not just Chinese domestic affairs.

If China uses American satellites to do the missile test, then it is ur concern. In the same way, if u sell weapons to Taiwan, then it is our concern. By the way, make sure that Taiwan wants to buy it first. Taiwan might veto buying American stuff for 60 times.

Quote:
So China was being subverted by what? CSIS? Perhaps the Mounties snuck into China and began spreading out pamphlets.
What is the problem with your logic. VOA and RFA is specifically broadcasted to China, and in reciprocal way, China has every right to buy western media based on mutual consent.

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Considering the Chinese Embassy has been seeking to intimidate Falun Gong members in Canada, and in Taiwan, you wouldn't like what reciprocity actually looked like.
We don't care if American Embassy intimidates American criminals.

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No of course not, by supporting the organization which has killed millions of their countrymen and suppresses their rights, they are taking a perfectly rational approach.
Since American government has expanded power by racial genocide and slavery, Chinese are as rational as the Americans.

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No China's threat of violence comes when they finally admit what everyone wants to know. China is make threats because it knows that it is weak and impotent it just doesn't want its people to know it.
Since China is so weak, Lebannon should not have rejected Chen SB's plane several hours before it landed. London, Frankfurt and Rome should not have rejected TW's "Urgent Landing" requests. Oh, Mexico has just forbidden Chen SB's plane to pass through Mexico air, so that all his political attempts in LA was all destroyed by sudden delay. Chinese people all know that China is only a weak developing country, how can it be compared with the superpowers. China is of course weak nation. We are not global cops.

Quote:
Concern has been expressed by Russia, the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, South Korea. But I guess Russia is a puppet state of the US? Seems to me that is the vast majority of the presence in space.
Give quotation from Russian government's reactions. Otherwise, don't borrow Russia's name. As far as I know, Russian defense minister did not believe American information and is skeptical about China's capabilities. Many retired generals have different opinions. Where is diplomatic concern??

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Of all launches they represent 87%, of currently active satellites, 85%. So perhaps the reason you see these countries complaining, because we actually have a stake in the matter.

TSE - States and Organizations
America, SKorea, Japan, Canada, Australia and UK voiced concern to China, they take 42.5% of the world satellites. Stop borrowing Russia's name in ur bullying, and stop using "international community".
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
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China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
I believe China's test was a one time affair showing that that it could do what the other superpowers have done. It was mostly for morale with very little strategic importance. As for the ban, I know of no government that is willing to negotiate such a treaty at this present time.
Actually, Russian and China used to be willing to negotiate such a treaty, but Bush did not want to.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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United_States     New_York

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
In case you don't know, both Bush and Clinton administrations are not too bad regarding their China policies. The white house is usually much more intelligent than the stupid and annoying American Congress.
That pesky representative government!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device is offline
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United_States     Connecticut

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Doubts in Moscow
In Moscow, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov doubted that the Chinese test took place as reported and told journalists that "the current rumors are greatly exaggerated."

"I have heard reports on this score, which are quite abstract," the Itar-Tass news agency quoted Ivanov as saying. "I doubt very much the reported anti-satellite target of the missile. I am afraid this is not so, but brushing aside my fears, it is very good that it is not so."

Some other Russian commentators, however, accepted the reports. Russian Maj. Gen. Vyacheslav Fateyev, criticized the Chinese test as "hooliganism," but added that "it shows that Beijing has a strong capability," according to Itar-Tass.
Questions deepen over satellite-killer test - Space News - MSNBC.com

So some Russian Generals dislike the tests at their face, others think that they are exaggerated and China didn't target a satellite, but if they did then they'd have a problem with it. Seems fair to chalk that up in the criticism category.

Last edited by Thematic-Device; 01-26-2007 at 07:25 PM.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
Luke Luke is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2006
Location: Changsha, China
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China     Iran

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thematic-Device View Post
Questions deepen over satellite-killer test - Space News - MSNBC.com

So some Russian Generals dislike the tests at their face, others think that they are exaggerated and China didn't target a satellite, but if they did then they'd have a problem with it. Seems fair to chalk that up in the criticism category.
Now, China has admitted. Do you see any Russian who have a problem?? Stop living in ur imagination!!
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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United_States     China

Re: Protest??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
Actually, Russian and China used to be willing to negotiate such a treaty, but Bush did not want to.
From my understanding, Chairman Mao never trusted the Russians, particularily Stalin; and it remains true to this day. China and Russia have developed some cooperation military, mainly as a counter to US military presence in the region, but that is all. However, China and the US have more in common economically than militarily as compared with Russia or Europe and should continue that cooperation despite the test.
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