Racist is a bit harsh though some would percieve to be that. In my opinion thats Islamaphobia = An irrational fear of Islam
With that kind of fear where does it end? In that case why aren t you afraid when you see a Spanish or Irish person. They could be IRA or ETA members?
An American could be a Ku Klux Klan member or a member of a fantical cult? These are risks that people have to live with every single day!
Islam is not the only religion where there are extremists,
Though I have to say I understand Islamaphobia and why some people react that way towards Muslims. Islam and Terrorism are so interconnected in the media that now people can t tell the difference between the 2. They are both very different.

You know once I asked a librarian for some books on Islam. You know what she showed me "A beginners guide to Terrorism" and Books on Bin Laden and Al Queda. There was 1 copy of the Koran and that was it. This is what Islam has unfortunately come to be associated with.

You know in the Christmas after 9/11 Fox news were interviewing people in a shopping market asking them " how can they go out shopping when a terrorist attack could occur at any moment?" Fox has the "terror alert" on red everyday. European News is alot less dramatic but all the same instills fear in people. What are you supposed to do? lock youself in your home and never go out? Stop all Muslims entering the country? It madness. Iraq suffers far more from terrorism than the US and Western Europe. Maybe we just have more time to worry about it.

The Muslims responsible for 7/7 in London were British Muslims. How could they be sent back or denied an education?
I am completely for integration of Muslims into western societies. Its not simple but I believe it is possible.

[quote]Which is why I added bigot to the conversation. There is a difference between having a fear of something and wanting to act upon that fear, if that action is unfocused and taken to the extreme. You have indicated the latter in your post. Being afraid of something without acting is upon it is paranoia if you have no specific reason for that fear or simply being insecure.

[quote]Noone who is racist considers themselves racist. Look I do not know whether you actually are or not, all I can go by is some of your comments on this board. I dislike bad apples as well as you do, but I do not hold an entire group of people respnsible for those bad apples like you seem to. What else can it be when you want to restrict people comming ot the US simply because of those bad apples. Yes you do have every right to eonder what is going on, no one has claimed you do not. You even have a right to wonder if that muslim you are walking past is a suicide bomber or not. What I believe you do not have a right to do is to hold all the people of the region that muslim comes from accountable for his or her actions, and when you claim you want to keep them out of the US because one of them might be a suicide bomber that is what you are doing. That and only that was why I termed your post racist.

[quote]I am not saying we will always be able to identify people like Atta or the others. There are no guarantees given to yu the day you are born or any subsequent day. All we can do is our best to find them and stop them before they can act. Lets assume your were suspicious of him from the start, he was here legally and as far as I know he violated no laws of the US. We are all a little more suspitious than we were before 911, that is not what we are talking about and not what you advocated int he post I initially responded to. There is nothing wrong with being more vigilant, but there is something wrong about painting an entire group with a broad stroke if you have no evidence that they are guilty. I am not saying we should not be more careful, what I am saying is to prevent muslims from entering the US simply beause they are muslims and because Atta was a muslim is wrong.
[quote]No it doesn't, but how you proposed to respond to that suspition was in my view.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I cannot wait to see the upcoming torrential flood of illogic here...

Yep! You will notice that WOI tries to discredit me with a circumstantial ad hominem attack.

-Person A (Frank) makes claim X. (Immigration crime statistics)
-Person B (WOI) asserts that A (Frank) makes claim X (Immigration crime statistics) because it is in A's (Frank) interest to claim X (Immigration crime statistics) citing Person A (Franks) membership on a nationalist forum as evidence.
-Therefore claim X (Immigration crime statistics) is false.

You will note the sheer ignorance of this statement? WOI is like one of the many antifa activists running around who views anyone who disagrees with their views on immigration etc...as 'fascists.' Allow me to correct this defamatory ignorant statement by WOI...

Incidentally, the fact that you're a regular poster on Stormfront proves once again that you're a WHITE NATIONALIST as non-WHITE NATIONALISTS are denied posting rights on stormfront except in a small subforum

WOI has decided, in a fallacious manner BTW, to make fascism synonymous with white nationalism even though there are varying political beliefs within the movement; some support fascism while others do not. Nice try WOI but those who can think outside the box or at least rationally will reject your silly line of reasoning.

Three out of four young Muslims would prefer Muslim women to "choose to wear the veil or hijab," compared to only a quarter of over-55s. - Telegraph

My percentage calculator says 3 out of 4 is 75%. If the Telegraph has rounded the numbers off take it up with them.

Percentage Calculator

This is what we call an ad nauseum fallacy folks! Repeating the same claim over and over even under different wording will not make the claim true.

They are two numbers from two different articles from two different times. One of the poll numbers is from ICM!

According to the UK Telegraph it is 40%; If the Telegraph has rounded the numbers off to the next highest tenth; take it up with them.

The BBC would seem to share your view but you will notice that they ADDED a percentage point to my 12%! Talk about cherry picking! Why did you ignore the following!?

3% of over-55s compared with 13% of 16 to 24-year-olds admire organisations like al-Qaeda that are prepared to fight the West

BBC NEWS | UK | Younger Muslims 'more political'

I find it quite odd that you nitpick 1 percentage point when one of the Telegraph percentage points is a too high yet you declined to give the proper number when one of them was too low and I would say that the most damning statistic was too low in my original numbers.

Just because a source is 'conservative' does not by default invalidate it's findings.

This hardly proves anything as the British Tories are pro-diversity, pro-Islam and pro-Immigrantion.

Islam gets bad rap in Britain, David Cameron warns - Yahoo! News

What I did was present the Telegraph article as it is written. I apologise but I have an old computer and I have trouble keeping Adobe Acrobat Reader on the system but you will note that my numbers are accurate at least within 1 to 3 percentage points even by your own admission! The BBC actually adds a percentage point to the most damning statistic

I believe that they should as well...

What is laughable is that you claim that my numbers have no academic merit yet you encourage the forum gallery to examine a study by what you label a political spin factory.

You have yet to prove that even one of my numbers is inaccurate; oh you have launched personal attacks ad nauseum and attempted to poison the well but you have yet to prove that my numbers are in error.

You have not prove anything to be 'b**shit.' The only revisions you have made to the Telegraphs numbers have been marginal at best! 74% instead of 75% and 37% instead of 40% in two cases is hardly worth changing my overall view of the matter.

At best you have proven that 37% of Muslims want Sharia Law instead of 40% but indeed illustrated that 13% instead of 12% of Muslims admire groups like Al-Qaeda and are willing to fight against the west; where is the b**shit?

[quote=Gort;909662]
Which is why I added bigot to the conversation. There is a difference between having a fear of something and wanting to act upon that fear, if that action is unfocused and taken to the extreme. You have indicated the latter in your post. Being afraid of something without acting is upon it is paranoia if you have no specific reason for that fear or simply being insecure. [quote]

Fair enough. I am a bit paranoid of something happening. I mention in the previous post that "if we never allowed any muslims in the US we wouldn't have had 911." No that is a true statement. But my beliefs are if we are going to allow them in we should be pretty damn sure they are not a terrorist. I'm not against them being here or multiculturism in the least bit. Most of my friends are of another race.

[quote]Noone who is racist considers themselves racist. Look I do not know whether you actually are or not, all I can go by is some of your comments on this board. I dislike bad apples as well as you do, but I do not hold an entire group of people respnsible for those bad apples like you seem to. What else can it be when you want to restrict people comming ot the US simply because of those bad apples. Yes you do have every right to eonder what is going on, no one has claimed you do not. You even have a right to wonder if that muslim you are walking past is a suicide bomber or not. What I believe you do not have a right to do is to hold all the people of the region that muslim comes from accountable for his or her actions, and when you claim you want to keep them out of the US because one of them might be a suicide bomber that is what you are doing. That and only that was why I termed your post racist. [quote]

I don't hold them all responsible. I am just suspicious of them. I don't really care if they come here. I just don't want the radical ones to come here because of their intentions. Now the real question is how can we root the bad ones out without being racist or bigots?

[quote]I am not saying we will always be able to identify people like Atta or the others. There are no guarantees given to yu the day you are born or any subsequent day. All we can do is our best to find them and stop them before they can act. Lets assume your were suspicious of him from the start, he was here legally and as far as I know he violated no laws of the US. We are all a little more suspitious than we were before 911, that is not what we are talking about and not what you advocated int he post I initially responded to. There is nothing wrong with being more vigilant, but there is something wrong about painting an entire group with a broad stroke if you have no evidence that they are guilty. I am not saying we should not be more careful, what I am saying is to prevent muslims from entering the US simply beause they are muslims and because Atta was a muslim is wrong.[quote]

Part of the problem is Atta was not suspicious in the slightest. Thats what scares me. How many Atta's are here now waiting for that phone call? How careful were we? The answer to these questions makes me a bit suspicious. It also makes me wonder how much time goes by before the next attack.

Do you believe there are no radicals in the uS at this time?

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If the average person's butt caught on fire I'd be willing to bet the American media could convince them its not in their best interest to put it out.

[quote]Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. The first quote I posted from you seemed to me at least to indicate you were advocating not letting muslims in because one of them might be a terrorist. If that is not yur position then I apologize for the term I used. It was that comment that I based it upon.


Of course I do not believe this. I am quite sure there are in fact radicals still here and I am equally quite sure that there will be another attack in the US at some point in the future before this is all over. How we deal with it though it seems says a lot about our principles and dedication to the democracy we have spent 230 years developing.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

der.. i was just on frankies forum white nationalists in britian... i just want to clarify that, while we may come to similiar conclusions, My motivations are no where near his, especially the white supremicists in that forum.

I just would like to put electronic devices in mosques, and deport/arrest/censur/ follow imams that preach terror, anti westernphilosphies, particularly in europe. This is because largely, the huge protests that occur in europe, regarding certain danish cartoons, the violence across france that has occured, the tendency for terrorists in europe, particularly in england to be home grown. And i would like to end, permanently this most ugly form of islam.

I would like to make it so in europe and america we can all honestly say we have nothing to fear from our muslim communities. I would like to remove the stain of radicalism from moderate islam. And encourage muslim communities to promote moderate imams.

Ted while I may disagree with you from time to time, I never thought you fit into the same catagory as Frank. There is an old saying, politics sometimes makes strange bedfellows. It is an accurate old saying.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

What are my 'motivations?'

Even though he comes to 'similar' conclusions as the Frankster?

Unfortunately your common sense approach is one that will get you labeled a 'racist' and a 'bigot' very quickly! Even though I concede that statistically radical Muslims are certainly NOT in the majority the radical population is high enough in the minority to warrant such concerns.

I tend to be accused of cherry picking but it is realism! In the UK when 37% or 40% of Muslims want theocratic Islamic law instead of the traditional Anglo-system of justice that translates into at least 592,000 of them rejecting western legal values.

When 13% of Muslims admire groups like Al-Qaeda and are ready to fight the west that translates into 208,000 willing to do so! A mere handful of radicals were able to carry out the 7/7 bombing with relative ease imagine what 13% of the radicalised UK Muslim population could do to the UK should they decide to live up to their desire to fight the west! It is frightening! There is nothing wrong with accepting reality and acknowledging the dangers of diversity in this regard!

Only the small-minded ideology-driven multiculturalists will condemn you for accepting this reality. Personally TBT, I prefer being labelled a fascist and a racist for living in the real world instead of being politically popular by choosing to live in a fantasy world of dogma and ideological ignorance.

I'm in agreement with you here. It only takes a handful to do some serious damage. And by simple %'s it is not illogical to think that way.

I understand why they would label me a racist or bigot but as you I'd rather be labeled that than become a victim of a suicide bombing. To me its exactly what you said...realism.

How things going with you man? Ive moved to Norcal, changed jobs, and got married since we last spoke.

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If the average person's butt caught on fire I'd be willing to bet the American media could convince them its not in their best interest to put it out.

And that is the whole thing! When people call me a racist and a fascist I wear it as a badge of honour! Why? It means I live in the real world! Think about it; if my view were wrong wouldn't people just refute them and move on? Usually those who attack and demonise others for their views do so because they cannot refute them or counter arguments they do not want to hear.

I am doing very well; I will be attending college in eastern Europe next year with any luck and right now I am blogging as much as I can which is not much.

Congratulations on your marriage! I was going to get married once but once she sobered up I was out of luck!

There's an awful lot of agenda-driven rubbish being posted on this thread from both sides, so I would say I agree with this poster. I certainly resent being likened to Stormfront for refusing to toe the politically correct line, but that's the intolerance of modern liberals for you.

If political correctness continues to tighten its all-pervasive grip on British society this debate can never be resolved. The ghettoes created by the failed multiculturalism experiment must be reversed and Muslims integrated into British society or we're in deep trouble.

To paraphrase Jared Taylor: Whenever somebody starts calling you a ‘racist’ or a Nazi, fascist etc…it is a sure sign that you are winning the argument, because when somebody calls you a ‘racist’ or a Nazi, fascist etc…he is just calling you names; he is not making an argument. It is because you have defeated him that he is reduced to calling you names which is the most graceless way of his admitting defeat.

Ridiculous! Show me the Richness, which i earn by multi-cultural contacts? Name me any advantages, which i got by mass-immigration!
Do you mean´this ones?
1. crime
2. poorness
3. unemployment
4. financial desaster by social transfers