Yap, every nation does bad things. America was comparatively more benign than the Soviet Union, which is why finally China is willing to cooperate with America. At that time, China must allow Soviet military bases in order to get along with USSR, but America did not impose such harsh conditions. America proposed to set up and pay for the American military bases in Northern China, Manchuria and Xinjiang against Russia in 1985, but did not force it upon the Chinese government.

Actually Enigma, you have no clue about the US immigration system at all. And I am not going to change the topic of the thread to accommodate your lack of understanding with one of the most complex legal and administrative systems known to man. But for the record, an immigrant prior to 1954 had less of a chance getting into the US than now unless they could prove some acquired trade or work skill unique in the workplace.

As for the USSR comment: do you think living in the USSR was a utopian society? I hardly think NOT. But keep posting the ancient Communist propoganda of the 1950's and 1960's if you wish.

I know my country is not perfect, has made mistakes, and that was the whole bloody point. You pointing out that the US was bad b/c of our affiliation with some Nazi war criminals is just plain ludicrous because you fail to acknowledge what your country, USSR, and most other countries also did. It is called applying a double standard, hypocrisy, and so forth.

I understand why the OP posted it and it had somewhat to do with the US, but more to do with Japan. Care to guess why?

Except I cited a movie circa 1960 which quite plainly made fun of the US's relations with those in the former Axis Powers. The reason you don't see the US harping over it is because the US knows it, the US has known it for a long time and other then in documentaries or period movies (e.g. The Good Shepard) its not something which comes up frequently since the Cold War is over.

No, you are using it to justify the extreme level of xenophobia demonstrated by China and to extend a demonization of Japan to a demonization of the US

And yet, we did it. Hell look at Germany, Austria and France before WWII they were all militaristic states. Now they are pacifists. Each country took its own lessons from WWII, the idea that countries cannot change, and that World War II had no effect on the world demonstrates your own willful ignorance and susceptibility to propaganda.

How many people, pray tell, have you spoken to, who are Japanese?

i dont think we need to be reminded that the usa is morally sick, we are told that every day by everyone around the world all the time. i think more discussion needs to be had that says.. the usa aint all THAT bad. But I appreciate your attempts to be evenhanded in your criticism against ALL nations, not just blame america for the entire world. personally i would have prefered that we could have usin Japs that were not guilty of war crimes as spies, but i guess we needed people that had experiance and were High up enough, and i suppose that pretty much everyone at that level was guilty for the brutal treatment of china. they did not try the emperor either, for war crimes for politcal reasons for getting japanese people to behind MacArthur. i dunno.. But i always knew we used german warcriminals against the soviets.

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What a marvellous excuse - They all did it and so did we!

That may be true, however, no country on earth has been touting their 'moral and democratic superiority' for the last 60 years as long and as loud as the US and with less reason!!

As I said before, if the American people knew the dirty deeds that had been done in their name by their leaders many would be unable to accept the truth. However, those that did would be very, very angry.

It looks as though the responses to my post have proven that particular point.

It is a case of parting with one's dearly held illusions.

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Virgil

we must learn to accept the evil american empire as it is. and subjugate the planet.

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to me it seams like our image has already been destroyed right enigma? we should seriously just give up kick the reporters out and just kill everyone who so much as gives us an evil look and make iraq into a colony of the usa.

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Relax metalted, it's temporary. As soon as Bush/Cheney is gone then it will be back to normal.

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Diuretic, personally as the single most dominant power on the planet, i believe we are meant to be hated. while a new president may help change attitudes a bit, it will only be temporary. because.. we are an empire. and we exert our infuence on the planet, for better AND worse. mostly better tho, sorry its the truth. way better for the west. see with the soviet union out of the way, and no big power for everyone to hate more then the united states, all you have is us to hate.

personally i dont view this as an exclusively american empire, its also like the radio man said today and i happen to agree, its a combined empire of canada usa australia and england. it is a continuation of what has been for long time. an english speaking empire. almost every action all four countries has been supported by the others, we are there for mutual self defense and support.

But what my reason for saying those things is because they have a point. Our belief that we are a good people, a good country drives us to do good. It is why we give aid around the world, why we hand out toys to children and build schools in afgansitan and iraq.. it is why we are not rounding up people and executing them. because we very well could and subdue the country. we dont do these things because we hold our principles very high.. trying to convince us that we have no principles has no purpose. yes we have alot of cia make dirty deals, plenty of corruption, but the over all point is that collectively as a nation we believe in a certain ideal and attempt to hold our leaders to it. otherwise there would be no trial for abu graib, or anything else. the british empire was hated, and they didn care, nor did they make any attempt for anyone to like them. we are hated, we do care, and we do make an attempt to make people like us, and be free.
but there is also the empire, for our defense and benifit, for our high standard of living and prevention of cataclsymic world wars, the cia uses people against other people for our own benifit regardless of the iffy connections. self defense national security and intelligence requires that we make dirty deals with dirty people. the intelligence agencies of all nations opperate in a region bordering morality and descency, but for the intended good for the nations that they work for.

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metalted - points taken. I wonder about this "hate" of the US though. Apologies to readers, I'm about to wander a bit I think. I think it's envy for the most part, rather than hatred. I agree with you about the British Empire, they couldn't give a rat's arse. They only let go of various colonial possessions when it became just too difficult to hang onto them. You know if it hadn't been for WWII, which began the destruction of the British Empire, I think that it would have kept growing and perhaps we might have seen a war between the US and Britain, as stupid as that sounds now.

Every country gets up to dirty tricks, some more than others. Yes the CIA have been involved in some very dirty tricks around the world but............KGB anyone? NKVD? MI5/6? Ahem. Where I do get a bit ticked is where crooks are lionised - Oliver North and his cabal for example. But that's for Americans to correct.

America is not a bad country, on the whole it's done more good in the world than bad, but it has done bad. Same as the Brits and the Romans of course, hah, they could have shown the Nazis a thing or two about occupying countries. The point is that your current administration are a bunch of bastards who are despised around the world. We're all waiting for Bush/Cheney to piss off ASAP, that is if they don't dismantle your democracy in the meantime.

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"There were no D-Day Heroes in 1973" - Cold Chisel Khe Sanh

Movies can make implications, but can not be hard evidence. CIA declassified materials are pure evidence.

China is not even half as xenophobia as America in many ways, not to mention pure race Japan. China is justified to demonize Japan and America as much as Japan and America demonize China.

I don't know enough of Europeans, so I avoid commenting on Germany, Austria or France. I have visited Tokyo for many times, have seen those xenophobia right wing propaganda buses with high voice microphones driving through Tokyo streets all day long. Besides, I have read some Japanese novels, watched Japanese TV shows, movies and cartoons from very young. Well, none of the Japanese that I have spoken to show any fascism, but they are usually extremely polite on surface. My comment on Japan does not come from those public statements or "Pacifist Constitution" that is subject to be changed any time, but come from the profoundly cultured Japanese literature and art elements.

Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Afganistan and UAE are already full or half American colonies, not to mention Israel. You can argue about Turkey and Jordan. Now, America is expanding to Iran.

It wasn't implied, it was made fun of, it isn't funny unless the public knows about it. Dr. Strangelove wasn't some obscure documentary, but a classic comedy. Operation Paperclip is a well known part of US history, if the CIA had only just declassified it then their attempts to keep it secret were some of the worst in history.

Really? Because it seems to me, we don't butcher our people nor do we torture people for stretching. There is a legitimate cause to worry when a country is actively causing harm, its ridiculous to demonize a country for past actions more then half a century ago which did not directly harm anyone but instead simply used leverage against evil people prevent greater harm from occurring. Would you object to plea bargains in the criminal justice system for reduced sentences in exchange for saving lives?

So you've seen racist literature, there are similar reports for your own country, but I'd recommend actually seeing the opinion of the average Japanese citizen before drawing conclusions based on a segment of the media.

I would doubt very much that anyone hates the American people. I certainly don't. The US ruling elite and the politicians who do their dirty work are another thing!

Of course, there are other countries involved in dirty tricks around the world, Australia is certainly one of them. However, as we are tied to our alliance with the US, mostly, we don't have a choice.

It isn't who 'hates' the US, it is the use by the US ruling elite in nominating an 'enemy du jour' that gets my back up. I am speaking out on the foreign policies of the US on this forum because they are wrong! Then I get embroiled in the absolute piffle proclaimed by the uber-patriots that 'their' country is the greatest the world has ever seen. This, also, is very annoying as I can see that this is NOT correct. There is much that the US can learn from other countries in the world. Compassion and assistance for the less well-off is something in which the US is very backward in comparison with most other first world countries.

The 'we won the war for YOU' is another contentious point. What do you think my father was doing in the Pacific?

Oh! bugger it, I'm sick of explaining my position to the brain-dead on this forum. To those of you can't take well-earned criticism of your society and government, please, put me on ignore! I'm here to have discourse with open-minded adults not whiney children!


Getting back to the thread topic. America proclaims itself the greatest democracy and purveyor of freedom in the world, and yet it hasn't been beneath several administrations to get down down in the mud with those who would deny all of us those two rights.

It happened, admit it, promise to do better. Get rid of those spongers on the world who steal elections in their own country and rig elections in others!

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Lucky is he (sic) who has been able to understand the causes of things
Virgil

enigma, what is the greatest nation in the world? use all possible attributes that would make a nation the 'greatest in the world.' including sizable positive influence on the planet, reliability in allaince, social-economic-environmental policies, freedom, safty consider anything you consider relevant and tell me why you think that nation is so.. this is out of curiousity.


engima what you are knocking is not american politicians, its american patriotism. notice when i say america is great or when anyone else says that, they have never sung any praise to any politician or politcal party. i do not think R's or D's make usa great, i just think usa is great. criticise politicians all you want no one really minds.

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