Originally Posted by Wallaroo
As if your fucking country weren't socialistic enough already.

I just read that the French people work 30% less on a week than the Danes do. Seems like someone from above really needs to kick your lazy socialistic frog asses into a higher gear - and that cannot be done by a socialist president for obvious reasons.
How about not being rude? Can you do that?

He is just being jealous .

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______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I could have answered using reason and arguments, but I bet it wouldn't be useful, as you didn't bother informing yourself in the first time. So instead I'll defend myself using the same tactic you used.
No, really, that's what you sound like. You have no clue what the candidates are about, yet you are arrogant enough to insult the voters.




I am currently doing studying for a master of science, and 90% of my friends there will vote for Sarkozy. I am also a philosophy student, and people there will vote at 80% for Segolene or the extreme left. My parents voted for Segolene and come from the most centrist side of the socialist party. And finally, I spend time on this forum which promotes economically liberal policies (liberal = less government control). I really gave a lot of attention and thought to this election. So I don't think someone can say that I'm "brainwashed", although it is clear that there is brainwashing on both sides, and perhaps more on the left.


I base a lot of my opinion on the philosophy magazine interview (with Onfray), which imho showed a lot of Sarkozy's personality, if you can read between the lines.

Most of my comments against Sarkozy are based about his personality, although I also have problems with his attitude towards Europe (or rather, the fact that he doesn't seem to give a shit about Europe) and the cost of his program.
1. and 2. I base this on his statement that evil doesn't need to be explained, and that many of the attempts to explain it are attempts to justify it. He gave the example of nazi Germany. He showed that he thinks it is better to punish than to make undeserved concessions, even if the consequences of punishment will create worse problems in the future - see the way he dealt with the riots, and the fact that he suppressed the proximity police, a big error in my opinion.
The result of this policy is that more criminals are sent to prison, but at the same time, more people become criminals.
3. How can someone who has to make decisions state that people are born pedophiles or suicidal? Anyone who's got a clue on this subject will tell you it's wrong. I must agree that Segolene might not know any better . As I said, it was a tough choice.
4. Once again, Segolene isn't much better, but she is a bit better. Sarkozy has a tendancy to solve everything by a total conflict.

__________________
Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

Yes I agree. We will see how the street will react when he really wants to reform things like the CPE, it will depend a lot on the elections to the Assemblée Nationale what he can really do. But IMO drastic reforms are needed and I trust Sarko more that he will do it despite public resistance. But as I said it will all depend on the support he gets from the Assemblée

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With regard to Sarkozy, I tend to agree with the view is that he re-acts to problems more than he acts. He seems to totally lack principles. And his charisma is just what it is : charisma.

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______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Je pense, en toute gentillesse, que vous (IIIX et Sucre) vivez dans un monde qui n'est pas le mien....

Passer une nuit à Argenteuil ou à Clichy sous bois, et vous verrez si vos belles convictions sur la criminalité ne change pas.

(I think you don't live in the same world as me. Spend just one night in Argenteuil or in Clichy and You'll see if you don't change your mind about criminality)


Sucre en ce qui concerne ton message je te répondrai que lorsque Sarkozy a dit qu'il allait mettre des radars automatiques partout, il l'a fait, lorsque pendant la campagne on lui a demandé s'il allait en rajouter il a répondu par l'affirmative.

[Sucre, as for your post, I have to say when Sarkozy said something he has always done what he said (i.e : radars) ]

Ce que je vois surtout en Sarkozy, c'est que c'est quelqu'un qui n'a jamais changé de ligne de conduite (assez rare pour un politicien pour que ca soit signalé) et qui a toujours fait ce qu'il a dit, en même temps de dire ce qu'il allait faire. On peut ne pas être d'accord avec ce qu'il dit.

He has never changes his mind even if he knew it wasn't popular, to me, it's a real quality especially for a politician.



Je ne peux pas voter pour Ségolène Royale! IIIX parle de cout! ben parlons du cout du programme de Ségolène. Je vous encourage à lire le pacte présidentielle de Ségolène royale voici en résumé les 100 propositions. (100 proposition). Après ca il va falloir me dire ou on va trouver l'argent. Sans compter que la réduction de la dette, Hollande a affirmer que ca n'était pas une priorité du PS ! on sait pourquoi ! pour financer son programme il n'est absolument pas question d'aborder ce problème. Le PS parie sur la relance d'une croissance avec des remèdes qui ont tous dejà été tentée! en gros, on nous promet quoi ? plus de service publique (De Facto = plus de dette puisque le service publique est justement le fruit du traitement de la fonction publique) et plus d'impot pour financer toujours plus d'assistanat. Je ne suis pas contre l'assistanat, sauf que cette fois pour la France ca veut dire Banqueroute! purement est simplement. Je ne suis pas alarmiste, je suis pragmatique. Pour trouver un bon diagnostique de la France dénué de toute opinion politique je vous encourage à lire un livre : celui de François de Closet - Encore plus.
Les 40 premières pages de ce "encore plus" vous mettra peut-être les pendules à l'heure sur ce qu'est le resultat de notre socialisme ou de nos politiques de manières plus générales.

I don't think so.

It depends on what you'll spend this money. If you spend your money to buy an appartement and then see your money back by the rents then at the end you'll earn profits. If you spend your money to build a house then each month you'll have to pay back this house and no profit.
We have already saw what was the kind of spending the socialism done. The unemployment never decreased the poverty is still there. Actually, we have to change our mind about what to do with our money. It's like when you invest in something, you want earn money. the sarkozy's programm, it's the same...
I don't say I'm sure about the real efficiency of his programm, but I'm sure about the real inneficiency of the sego's one.


As for : "half of France is against him", excuse me to remind you how your democracy works. The guy who win the elelct rule the country and more of the half of the population support him.

This is called democracy...

caseras, there is no need to quoting Ségolène as a counter-proposition to Sarko. She was not my candidate.

The only candidate who presented a non-demagogic fundable platform was Bayrou. He was my candidate. On one point Ségo and Sarko are the same : they have people dream.

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______________________Own only what you can always carry with you: know languages, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag.”___________________Alexander Solzhenitsyn

I agree with you about that. As I already said the problem of bayrou was about the possibility to push the politicians to make one party. When we look at the differencies between Sego and Sarko, it's obvious They would have never been agree on anything.


What we can hope ? I'd say, if Sego or Sarko failed to rule the country I hope our country will understand it's time for us to give the key of the Elysée of someone who is not demago but pragmatic.

Of course, whatever the candidate who will be elected as a president , we have to wish the best.

Could you keep it civilized please?

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

To me Bayrou's campaign was based on an utopia that cannot be acheived in a country like France, and I'm sure he knows this, but he knows also it was the only way to possibly make it. I call this opportunism.
This right and left joining venture to run the country makes me remember of the former alliance between Pasqua and De Villier : it exploded in less than 1 year.
I cannot imagine people from both sides, who fighted each other for years on the political scene, governing hand in hand and smiling to each other. It's just a dream - a nice one, I agree - but no more than a dream, which can be dangerous to the country at the end.

Im gonna go for royal since I think France needs a leader who brings the people together and pays attention to the minorities instead of someone who bashes on immigrants and will improve the economical welfare at the cost of those minorities.

I'd usually go for the more liberaloption (mind that "liberal" in europe is close to socialistic in the us) but france really needs some fixes the free market cannot solve in a short time span, but the governement can (numerous cities 'rebuilt' by socialists prove so).

Correction: liberal in Europe means right-wing economical policies (more power to the market) instead of meaning left-wing moral policies (less moral power to the state) as in the US.

__________________
Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

exactly! i couldnt have put it better.

You think wrong. I'm not going to tell you my whole life, but I know what happens in these places from personnal experience. And I'll add something - those who vote Sarkozy are not, statistically, those who are most exposed to criminality.
I explained why I think that Royal's program will reduce criminality in a much more efficient way than Sarkozy's. Royal isn't ignoring punishment, but she also has ideas for prevention. Sarkozy punishes criminals, and creates just as much new ones. What's the point?
Is it quality, or being stubborn? Anyway, he changed his mind from time to time, to destroy potential concurrents within his party or about the EU.

I read Segolène's program, as well as Sarkozy's program, thanks. And I think you should read my own messages. I have already stated that Ségolène's program costs more than Sarkozy's, and that it was one of the reasons why I didn't like either of these two candidates. However the difference in the costs of these two programs is extremely small: around 5% (Bayrou's program was around 90% cheaper compared to the two others).

So your rant about the costs of program shows your own disinformation - not mine. In the future, please don't suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about and that I need someone "pour me mettre les pendules à l'heure" when you have no clue what you're talking about. Sarkozy isn't doing more about the debt than Royal, they're both just as fucked up on this issue.


Edit: the costs have changed since the last estimations, because of the new propositions made. RFI - Présidentielle 2007 - Le coût des programmes revu à la hausse


Edit 2:
According to this site, Institut de l'entreprise: Page d'Accueil:
Sarkozy's program = 63B (expenses) - 9B (reduction of some retreats & of the number of state-employed workers)
Sarkozy's total = 53,33 B€
Segolene's program = 62,78 B€
Bayrou's program = 2.9 B€

Seriously, neither Segolene nor Sarkozy will be able to fund their programs.

__________________
Client: In six days, do you hear me, six days, God made the world. And you are not bloody well capable of making me a pair of trousers in three months!
Tailor: But my dear Sir, my dear Sir, look at the world, and look at my trousers.
(Beckett)

To me, a freedom loving American, I cannot believe that anyone anywhere would ever vote for a socialist. But apparently Europeans do not seem to share my disdain for socialism.