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  #286 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Russia
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhvoter View Post
Oleg, let me say this.

I would not like a delegation from a foreign country trying to influence my elections and I see where you're coming from, however it's not that simple and please read why
Nice to meet the understanding.
Quote:
Russia is a new democracy and the fact that the Other Russia has chosen to identify with representatives from a country which they share their democratic values with does not mean we're bankrolling and 'propping up' Other Russia. You must also understand that 'Other Russia' is outgunned by the rollbacks of democracy by Vladimir Putin. They can't run TV ads, they can't have shows, their TV news gets shut down, so if you were in their position, why would you NOT accept or ask for any foreign help? The way it is now they have no chance of winning.
Many reasons, but I'm tired now and put only one. Because on demonstrations Kasparov always shouts his speeches in English and their slogans are written in English too. Possibly he wants his words to be better understood in reports on Euronews for European and American audience.
But in Russia this is being taken clear as everythere. Imagine some opposition in the US would appeal to the street crowd in Russian, while calling the regime in White House doomed criminal band.


Quote:

But I agree with you that this gives them a bad reputation. I would be angry too. I just wish Russians could be a little bit more constructive about these things and not accuse our country of plotting a "CIA coup" like many of your youth groups do.
We don't accuse your country. We understand the desire of the US to keep control over Russia as it was in 90-s. Sorry, it's no more possible.

Quote:
I'm not sure Georgia's political woes can compare to 3.5 million people killed in a Soviet-imposed famine. I do commend you though for acknowledging that as a crime, because your (Russian) government doesn't unfortunately.
Russian government doesn't acknowlege the concept the famine was a crime deliberately commited by ethnical Russians against ethnical Ukrainians. The attempt to turn the crime of Bolshevicks into Russian Nazism against Ukrainian Nation will never be accepted. All died of hunger or nobody - this is only acceptance.
It's my opinion, the extremely hard actions of Bolshevicks in Ukraine was caused with desire of revenge. The Ukraine was only place in Czarist Russian Empire, there the pogroms against Jews took place. So when those guys has taken power they cruelly payed back. Eye for eye.

Quote:
So give me a few answers, don't just say it's a 'mystery.' If it's not the Kremlin who else would want people like Politskovkaya and Litivenko dead?
No problem. The 90-s in Russia were like the 20-s in Chicago. The oligarchs led feudal wars over property they plundered. The journalists was used like fighting dogs in these battles of compromate, where money, media and power clutched in one piece. Usually you can detect the reasons of murder, answering the question "Who needed and used this".
The deaths of P and L was not necessary to Kremlin. All possible dirt and compromate against Putin they used years before. Putin was getting ready for two very important summits with European elites. Any shit of that sort was extremely undesired in that certain decisive moment. Namely with the accusations he was suddenly met there where he planned to discuss the energetic policy and push the Russian interests. This seriously weakened his positions. The shameful trade occured, the Europeans offered to withdraw the accusations for the Putin's concessions in energetic policy. Cynically speaking, both P and L were murdered to the eve of every summit.
I don't want to say that Russian FSB is way morally better than CIA and MI6, but this time you attacked, and Russian counterparts could not prevent this. The security guard for Politkovskaya was not possible.
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  #287 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Russia
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro View Post
I have no respect for communists as they were the ones who were ruining my country for 40 years long with your help. Russians don't seem to care about their popularity abroad. None of their western neighbours really like them. Although there are exceptions in Russia and some people are nice, there seems to be majority of blind nationalist putin supporters with a handful of communists. Population is decreasing rapidly and those who can escape to west. Right now Putin has everything in control, but he will not be there forever. I do not fear Russia in Putins hands, I'm worried what comes after him. Russia has lot of experience with bringing misery to other countries.

Although we are both of Slavic origin, there seem to be big difference between western, southern and eastern Slavs.
Strange enough. I've been to Czechia in the tens of small and large cities, and nowhere did I met the hostility as you describe. Neither did I see any ruins, everything is pretty and cozy. Doesn't look, as if built for 20 years.
And you are right that we don't hurry to be popular. We are not pop-stars.
You say western neighbours don't like us? Who you like? You don't like Germans, I know. Do you like Poles? Yes? Maybe because they don't like Russians as you do? Well, it's ok. We like you, grumbling clowns, think whatever you want about us. If ever once again we will have mess with Germans and our tanks will not have ability to fly by that moment - my apologises in advance for the trampled grass.
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  #288 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2007
jaro jaro is offline
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Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
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Slovakia    
Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Strange enough. I've been to Czechia in the tens of small and large cities, and nowhere did I met the hostility as you describe. Neither did I see any ruins, everything is pretty and cozy. Doesn't look, as if built for 20 years.
And you are right that we don't hurry to be popular. We are not pop-stars.
You say western neighbours don't like us? Who you like? You don't like Germans, I know. Do you like Poles? Yes? Maybe because they don't like Russians as you do? Well, it's ok. We like you, grumbling clowns, think whatever you want about us. If ever once again we will have mess with Germans and our tanks will not have ability to fly by that moment - my apologises in advance for the trampled grass.
I would not call it a hostility but it is certainly dislike towards Russians. Owner of my house keeps rejecting all Russians wanting to live there. Also consider that people who dislike Russians will not speak to you. Russia prevented development of democracy in eastern europe for 40 years which finally flourishes after 1989. It supported communist regimes which devastated economy of those countries. Those people who fought nazis must have been deeply sorry for helping Russians. Czech people don't have a problem with Germans or Poles. You are badly informed. Todays Germans are totally different than Germans duging nazi Germany. They have evolved, but on the other hand, Russians seem to have stagnated as we see from never ending support for authoritarian rulers.
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  #289 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2007
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Those people who fought nazis must have been deeply sorry for helping Russians. Czech people don't have a problem with Germans or Poles. You are badly informed.
Do you really think Slovakia and Czechia could be existed now if not Russians?
If you think so i recommend you to read documents of fascists of that time to know exactly what do they planned to do with Slovaks, Czechs, Poles and Russians.

Quote:
Todays Germans are totally different than Germans during nazi Germany.
I don't think so.

Yaroslav, you are doing here the same as the patient who complain about the pain and curse a doctor who saved him life.

Last edited by MilleVanille; 12-08-2007 at 02:20 PM.
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  #290 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
jaro jaro is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Do you really think Slovakia and Czechia could be existed now if not Russians?
If you think so i recommend you to read documents of fascists of that time to know exactly what do they planned to do with Slovaks, Czechs, Poles and Russians.

I don't think so.

Yaroslav, you are doing here the same as the patient who complain about the pain and curse a doctor who saved him life.
Liberating Czechoslovakia wasn't really Soviet objective, its objective was to defeat Germans. Soviet union was comparably evil in that time, invading inocent countries like Finland, Baltic countries, Poland, using forced labor camps (supposedly for criminals, but hey, a criminal was everybody disagreeing with communists). Russians only joined Allies once they were attacked, and they were begging badly for help. If Russians left after 1945 peacefully and didn't meddle into affairs of eastern european countries, mutual relations would be much better now. I wonder whether I will ever get an apology from Russians for all the devastation after 1945.
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  #291 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Liberating Czechoslovakia wasn't really Soviet objective, its objective was to defeat Germans. Soviet union was comparably evil in that time, invading inocent countries like Finland, Baltic countries, Poland, using forced labor camps (supposedly for criminals, but hey, a criminal was everybody disagreeing with communists). Russians only joined Allies once they were attacked, and they were begging badly for help. If Russians left after 1945 peacefully and didn't meddle into affairs of eastern european countries, mutual relations would be much better now. I wonder whether I will ever get an apology from Russians for all the devastation after 1945.
Russia occupied some territories to protect itself from possible invasion once again. If it wouldn't, we could have WW3. Poland in 17 century, Sweden in 18th century, France in 19th century, Germany in 20th century, they are all tried to occupy Russia. There wasn't any single century without some european country trying to occupy Russia. History shows that every significant european power tries to occupy Russia.

History taught Russians that it is better to occupy than to be occupied.
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  #292 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
Imperator's Avatar
Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

protect itself from whom? the US, france, britain? come now....they created the Warsaw pact to put their influence directly on the ground and to suborn any democratic leanings, fair votes ala Poland etc........

heres a 6 minute video snippet here of Kasparov explaining his position...doesn't sound fascist to me...


Wall Street Journal Video - WSJ.com

you have to sit through the 20 second commercial...
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So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

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Last edited by Imperator; 12-09-2007 at 07:30 AM.
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  #293 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

And let's not forget that Československo was providing Germany with weapons, soldiers and other stuff from the very beginning of WW2.

Quote:
heres a 6 minute video snippet here of Kasparov explaining his position...doesn't sound fascist to me...
Kasparov is pro-american neocon puppet. His rating is lower than 1%.
The Other Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And i don't see the reasons (other than money) why does he in Russian politics, not in Azerbaijan, where he is from and from where he had escaped to Russia after pogroms on Armenians and Jews. He don't even live in Russia. He lives in London with his family.

Last edited by MilleVanille; 12-09-2007 at 09:04 AM.
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  #294 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
Imperator's Avatar
Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
And let's not forget that Československo was providing Germany with weapons, soldiers and other stuff from the very beginning of WW2.



Kasparov is pro-american neocon puppet. His rating is lower than 1%.
The Other Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And i don't see the reasons (other than money) why does he in Russian politics, not in Azerbaijan, where he is from and from where he had escaped to Russia after pogroms on Armenians and Jews. He don't even live in Russia. He lives in London with his family.
Regards czecko- the Sudetenland etc...remember that? they had little choice but to supply the Nazis with what they wanted....as did Romania et al...when you are under the boot ( I am SURE you understand being under the boot, but then maybe you don’t as it doesn’t appear so, nevermind)..

Has it ever occurred to you that his rating is at 1% because the media will allow him no voice, or any other political entity? (other than the communists as even Putin cannot utterly gut them, besides they are kin)...what’s Putin afraid of, why bother arresting him etc?.......what are you afraid of? if hes a “neocon” puppet whats the beef?..that would out if true...did you watch the video? I suspect not...

Quote:
not in Azerbaijan, where he is from and from where he had escaped to Russia after pogroms on Armenians and Jews.
Glad to hear you admit it....he escaped to russia...hence.....
__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor
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  #295 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: Russia
Posts: 768

   
Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro View Post
I would not call it a hostility but it is certainly dislike towards Russians. Owner of my house keeps rejecting all Russians wanting to live there. Also consider that people who dislike Russians will not speak to you. Russia prevented development of democracy in eastern europe for 40 years which finally flourishes after 1989. It supported communist regimes which devastated economy of those countries. Those people who fought nazis must have been deeply sorry for helping Russians. Czech people don't have a problem with Germans or Poles. You are badly informed. Todays Germans are totally different than Germans duging nazi Germany. They have evolved, but on the other hand, Russians seem to have stagnated as we see from never ending support for authoritarian rulers.
I traveled and adressed to hundreds of common Czechs. I adressed to them, asking for help, information and so on. NOT A SINGLE CASE of even a shadow of polite dislike ever I met. I have crossed all Czechia from the West to East and the only thing I remember was their greeting enthusiasm as they learned I was Russian - I shyed every time and I didn't know how to react, because I'm not too emotional, know history and I really prepared myself for the cooler welcome in advance.
The owner of your house is not the proof for anything. There are some freaks who finds the excuse for the in-born misantropy or homosexuality in different social phobias and rasism. If you want to say, this is entire region or city, which extremely dislikes Russians - tell me what. I personally visit it to check.
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  #296 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
..what’s Putin afraid of, why bother arresting him etc?.......what are you afraid of? if hes a “neocon” puppet whats the beef?..that would out if true...did you watch the video? I suspect not...
I'm personally afraid that his practice to unexpectedly block the car traffic will one day cost him his teeths. The jams are incredible, people get nervous to stay in them for hours. I'm not sure if the majority really knows him to be on the neocon payroll and lives in the US on Manhattan. But car drivers will definitely tear apieces any starnge clown who shouts in English language in front of the foreign reporters and don't let them the way.
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  #297 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
Imperator's Avatar
Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

he was arrested and held for 5 days, to prevent him from coming to harm by irate motorists? That’s a little rich don't you think?
__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor
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  #298 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
jaro jaro is offline
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Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 147

Slovakia    
Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Russia occupied some territories to protect itself from possible invasion once again. If it wouldn't, we could have WW3. Poland in 17 century, Sweden in 18th century, France in 19th century, Germany in 20th century, they are all tried to occupy Russia. There wasn't any single century without some european country trying to occupy Russia. History shows that every significant european power tries to occupy Russia.

History taught Russians that it is better to occupy than to be occupied.
I was expecting an apology not an excuse. If you are unable to see Russia's wrongdoings, we have nothing to discuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg
I traveled and adressed to hundreds of common Czechs. I adressed to them, asking for help, information and so on. NOT A SINGLE CASE of even a shadow of polite dislike ever I met.
You probably didn't discuss Russian past & todays politics with them did you? They would have probably told you to go back to Russia with your opinions.
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  #299 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
jaro jaro is offline
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Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Vienna, Austria
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
Regards czecko- the Sudetenland etc...remember that? they had little choice but to supply the Nazis with what they wanted....as did Romania et al...when you are under the boot ( I am SURE you understand being under the boot, but then maybe you don’t as it doesn’t appear so, nevermind)..
When you are born under the boot you don't perceive it that way

Those Czechs could either have been shot immediately, or go to work in Germany. Today there was an interview with one pensioner who said they received letters and had to go to forced labour. Although Germans didn't treat them so badly like Poles or Russians, it was no fun. They were building other labour camps, tunnels etc. Those remaining in Bohemia didn't have much choice either, they had to produce me109s and hetzers until allies arrived. You can imagine they must have been really pissed off if they few years later treated Sudetengermans so badly and kicked them out of the country (3 mil of them).
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  #300 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
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Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro View Post
When you are born under the boot you don't perceive it that way


yes I agree with that....good point...

the removal and relocation of a statue dedicated to soviet ww2 soldiers in Estonia, is an example of Putin going bonkers for a reason, he ostensibly should understand...I would think..he is after all, a democratically elected pres. who espouses liberty and freedom...
__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Last edited by Imperator; 12-09-2007 at 11:03 AM.
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