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  #301 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
I was expecting an apology not an excuse. If you are unable to see Russia's wrongdoings, we have nothing to discuss.
No apologizes to Nazi collaborators.

Quote:
Those Czechs could either have been shot immediately, or go to work in Germany. Today there was an interview with one pensioner who said they received letters and had to go to forced labour. Although Germans didn't treat them so badly like Poles or Russians, it was no fun. They were building other labour camps, tunnels etc. Those remaining in Bohemia didn't have much choice either, they had to produce me109s and hetzers until allies arrived. You can imagine they must have been really pissed off if they few years later treated Sudetengermans so badly and kicked them out of the country (3 mil of them).
There were no partisans in Chechoslovakia. Moreover, nazi ideology got large support in masses. Not like in Belorussia and Ukraine, where was a large partisan movement.
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  #302 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

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the removal and relocation of a statue dedicated to soviet ww2 soldiers sin Estonia, is an example of Putin going bonkers for a reason, he ostensibly should understand...I would think..he is after all, a democratically elected pres. who espouses liberty and freedom...
Don't confuse democracy with electable autocracy like in USA, Russia and almost all european countries except Switzerland.

Liberty and freedom is not the business of elected president or parliament.
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  #303 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
jaro jaro is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Collect Russia Badge of Czechoslovak Partisan, #196, circa mid to late 1940s. Soviet Russian
Czechoslovak WW2 Medals
BBC - WW2 People's War - Prisoner of War, Escape and Journey Home (3)
Military History Online - The Liberation of Western Czechoslovakia 1945

Heh, no Czechoslovak partisants whatsoever?
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  #304 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

About "Russia Badge of Czechoslovak Partisan". Comon! It is just communist propaganda. For example, communist propaganda in east Germany was talking that Germans were forced to serve to Nazi government against their will. Off course, that is not true. The same propaganda was about Czechoslovakia, France, etc.

The reality is that MUCH MORE Frenches died fighting FOR Hitler, than against him. That is the real fact.

There wasn't any significant partisan movement in Czechoslovakia. All you have is just few rare stories. Nothing more. Moreover, the level of collaboration and cooperation with Nazis was extremely high.
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  #305 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
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Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Don't confuse democracy with electable autocracy like in USA, Russia and almost all european countries except Switzerland.

Liberty and freedom is not the business of elected president or parliament.
too bad....
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  #306 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

It was bloody Soviet regime who thrusted these awards forcibly onto decent Czechs and Slovacs, which in reality resisted the Soviets, to imitate the illusion of their anti-fascist and pro-communist ideology favourable in post-WW2 Czechoslovakia.)
If anyone had rejected those medals, he undoubtfully would have been imprisoned in Gulag). There was no liberation of Czechoslovakia either - you know this. This was horrable occupation of Soviets.))))))) What a pity you was born so late - if only you were there in 1945... oh, how many Russian tanks had you destroyed from the Panzerfaust! Alas!
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  #307 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
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Gideon Gideon is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
Finland might be putting themselves in a desperate position if they helped out: they barely escaped Soviet occupation. They do have a very impressive history of defending themselves.

As for Sweden.....is there anything they would fight for? They are the distilled essence of neutrality.
Sweden helped Finland with arms and volonteers during their war with the Soviet Union (my grandfather did two tours), and Sweden covertly trained the norwegian resistance, and offered asylum to all norwegian refuges except those who where communist resistance, they were turned over to the gestapo. Swden traded heavily with Germany and Germany recieved something like 80 per cent of its iron ore from Sweden, Sweden also allowed Germany to transfer troops from Norway to Finland (so they could fight the russians) thru Sweden.

After the war Sweden claimed to be strictly neutral, after failed attempts to form a defensive pact with the other nordic countries, but that neutrality was just a show as there was no doubt the only possible aggressor would be the Soviet Union, and technical preparations were made to join forces with Nato in the event of an attack.

Sweden participated with both army and air force units in Kongo in 1960 under UN command.

Sweden joined the EU in the early 90's and wouldn't stay neutral if another memberstate was attacked. Sweden also gave military aid (surplus materiel) to the Baltic states in the 90's, so that they could build a fledgling army and so that shots would actually be fired if Russia invaded them again.

Sweden has a battle group together with Estonia, Finland, Norway and Ireland, we contribute with 2300 soldiers and this group is supposed to go online in 21 days from today, to be ready to deploy within 6000 km from Brüssels. Either they go to Sudan or to Kosova.

There is also talk about Sweden and Finland joining their marines, and a common nordic air defence.

So in conclusion, Sweden is hardly neutral anymore.
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  #308 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Well put Gideon.
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  #309 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

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So in conclusion, Sweden is hardly neutral anymore.
I doubt it was, since Sweden was a fascist collaborator, and responsible for fascist crimes just as Germany.
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  #310 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
The reality is that MUCH MORE Frenches died fighting FOR Hitler, than against him. That is the real fact.
The only French forces that can be said to have fought for Hitler were the SS Division Charlemagne and some of Vichy's forces in North Africa. Your statement is an absurdity, MilleVanille. Business as usual, I see.
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  #311 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
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Gideon Gideon is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

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Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
I doubt it was, since Sweden was a fascist collaborator, and responsible for fascist crimes just as Germany.
What fascist crimes would that be? Racist maybe, but hardly fascist. Sweden was a democracy governed by a broad coalition of all the political parties in the parliament (except the communist).

Sweden didn't have much choice but to collaborate or be occupied, it would have been a short war if Sweden refused and foreign occupation isn't in our national interest. I'm pretty sure Denmark and Norway would have made the same choice, had they been given it.
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  #312 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
The only French forces that can be said to have fought for Hitler were the SS Division Charlemagne and some of Vichy's forces in North Africa. Your statement is an absurdity, MilleVanille. Business as usual, I see.
It should also be noted that the 33.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne was never even at full strength.
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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.
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  #313 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2007
oleg oleg is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

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Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
Sweden helped Finland with arms and volonteers during their war with the Soviet Union (my grandfather did two tours), and Sweden covertly trained the norwegian resistance, and offered asylum to all norwegian refuges except those who where communist resistance, they were turned over to the gestapo..
Holy shit, good news about Sweden. You surrendered people to gestapo if they were of another "undesired" political views? Those were not Russians, who you possibly had reason to hate of any political views, but fellow Norvegians! Democracy, you say?
What a piece! I must translate it in into Russian and post to the Russian Internet. I hope this will change our ignorant attitude towards Sweden.
You are 100 times more base than any bloody German Nazi hangmen. Those had valour to die for what they believed to be their goal. But you Swedish miserable cowards, you hid your asses behind the Germans' back to have your prosperity in any outcome of war. Germans backs that is your only neutrality.
If you had surrendered the Nazis to NKVD - even in this case, were I communist, I'd despise your nation. The symbol of Sweden must be that man who sold the Christ. Breed of Iuda.
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  #314 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2007
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Don't forget that at the time of war they provided Nazis with metal (over 80% of all German weapon was made of Swedish ore).
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  #315 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2007
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Gideon Gideon is offline
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Re: Russia - „The Third Empire“

Sweden did extradite soldiers, viewed at least by the soviets as nazis, to the NKVD.

Swedish extradition of Baltic soldiers:
Quote:
The Swedish extradition of Baltic soldiers, in Sweden known as Baltutlämningen ("The Balts Extradition"), was a disputed political event in Sweden during 1945-1946, where Sweden extradited 160 Baltic soldiers, who had fought for the Axis against the Soviet Union in World War II. As they had arrived in Sweden, they were detained in prison camps. On 2 June 1945, the Soviet Union demanded Sweden to extradite all Axis soldiers. The protocol was first kept secret. When it became public, it was supported by most of parliament, and the Swedish Communist Party wanted to go even further, by extrading all civilian refugees from the Baltic countries. Extradition was completed on 25 January.

Sweden also extradited about 3000 German soldiers, according to laws on prisoners of war. The Balts were however a more controversial case, since they were Soviet citizens (the Soviet Union had annexed the Baltic states before the war against Germany). The Soviets therefore regarded the Balts as traitors, and they feared death sentence.
This is no doubt a disgrace in my country's past, as the article says it is much debated. It is seen as unnecessary and cowardly. But all historic events must be seen in their context, if almost all of parliament supported it they must have had reasons they thought where good. Or?

Concerning the communists handed over to Gestapo, this was a time when communist ruled Russia in a bloody dictatorship and swedish and norwegian communists sided with Russia and hoped Russia would invade Sweden too, as she had invaded Finland, the baltic states and Poland. They were seen as potential traitors, a very real threat to national security in a time when this threat was high in general.

Furthermore the social democrats have always been strong in Sweden, and they compete with the communist over the same voters, that's another dimension to it, much more shady. For example, it was a crime under swedish law to join the (mainly communist) republican forces in Spain, but heroic to join the finnish forces.

I don't think the swedish or norwegian communists were that much of a threat, at this time their beacon of light the Soviet Union was morally bankrupt after dividing up Europe with the nazis. We should have just passed them on to the soviets, they would have wanted that, and the soviets would have executed them as spies or at least sent them to gulag for reeducation.
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