Thank you…I am not sure if I’ll be able to keep thinking them up!

Thank you.

Okay, time for the next installment….

Well, the softly-spoken Speakeasy notes the paradox wherein non-Americans tend to display the same arrogance and intolerance for which they take Americans to task. Like White rabbit, I have to say I agree with this observation. Just like Italian Ice, THOUGH, HE graciously indicates “present company excepted”.

Candid iamwhatiseem recounts his positive impressions of Mexico, but notes that his German forebears seemed a little more reserved with strangers. I’m not sure what “keine Amerikaner” means. For sure, I think some cultures are more hospitable than others. But the point iamwhatiseem makes about the presence of a US base is interesting. I do think that it’s not just about “culture”; I believe extenuating factors can impact the way people relate to others.

Rakkasan the Patriot brings up the “ugly American” tag. It certainly is a derisive label, too often brandished undeservingly. But I would not say that “the majority in the last 6 years are just the way they are cause it is in fashion to think Americans suck”. Also I can agree with his point that someone’s life’s experiences will affect their opinion of the world, or America, but "perception is reality" was hardly a "clintonism". It is a concept that is too often distorted by all sides of politics. As to the Germans being so unmannerly as to crush his fun indulging in “fricken brew and brats”… gee.

I can agree with young Metalted that people should have a good appreciation of culture and arts. But I don’t follow his contention that Europeans lack appreciation of religious heritage, as measured against American concerns for religious heritage. Here, I will echo erikvv’s comment, inasmuch as that, the debate, as far as I can grasp, is related to religion and politics, not to the esteem people have for religious or historical edifices or other relics. As to comparisons between Islam and Western culture, or the lack of appreciation in the West today for heritage and tradition, I think it’s an interesting topic but it is moving outside the parameters of this discussion.

Jolly Jihad4Beer says the US was the first to apply the ideas of the enlightenment that came out of Europe, so wonders why Europeans now lecture Americans about secularism. It appears that religion is a much bigger issue of contention between Americans and Europeans, than between Americans and Australians. Interesting.

Enquiring AjaxPress observes differences between Mexicans, Russians and Japanese…his comment about the Japanese is interesting. Is it better not to “blurt out in the open” our views about each other?

Scholarly Donkey_Left jokily hints that we tend to be subjective about our own nationality.

Okay, couldn’t get to all the new posts, so I’ll have to catch up later if I can.

Tethys

__________________
-- Harry S. Truman

Tim, as I pointed out in my OP, I had reservations about posting the thread. I posted it as a counterweight to Speakeasy’s thread, but also because I have a belief that I want to test out. All I will say for now is that your comments bear out this belief, as does the exchange between Sucre and Si modo here, and a few other posts.

This is why I asked people to also comment on the question at hand. In other words, what are the pros and cons of the discussions we are having on Speakeasy’s thread and this thread?

Tethys

__________________
-- Harry S. Truman

A point about the ugly American.

If there are five American tourists bopping around the Louvre, and four of them are demurely taking pictures and sneaking their smuggled granola bars out of their fanny packs, whereas the fifth is raucously discussing with his comrades as to how good Mona Lisa would have been in bed, who is going to give Americans a bad reputation?

Similarly, if five Mexican immigrants live on your street and four quietly sneak of to their illegal jobs in the morning whereas the fifth cruises down your street in his dropped S-10 with tinted windows blaring reggaeton at all hours of the night, who is going to give Mexicans their bad reputation?

The funny thing about these stereotypes is that they are true: there are a lot of really obnoxious American tourists who act like they are entitled to all the jelly donuts in Berlin, and they are the ones who are noticed. Not all Americans are obnoxious when traveling, but if one in five (totally arbitrary numbers, by the way) is, they will most certainly earn a somewhat justified reputation.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

While we certainly do tend to be subjective about our own nationality (viva Colombia!), what I was actually jokingly hinting at was that Puerto Ricans are all Naco.*


*Naco: tacky, trashy, loud, annoying, unrefined philistine


Actually, this ties in pretty nicely with my post about the Ugly American. The same is true for the Naco Puerto Rican.

__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

to donkey,i still find it annoying when people complain about mexicans.... and I still think its rather ignorant and racist to think of mexicans as a people to be all the same. if you want to poke fun at people thats one thing but still... its rather mean spirited and it does not do anyone any good. Certain things are cultural I agree but not all of that is bad.. and theres nothing we can do about some obnoxious guy in germany that happens to be an american, so why should we get the blame for that?

__________________


www.myspace.com/crusade7

That was kind of my point dude.

__________________
"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

so since i believe that some people are acting the way they are cause it is fashionable to do this, that some hate america for our freedoms and are jealous of our freedoms I have a mental illness? that is interesting , so since i think people like you are just filled with hate and are over the top with most of your assessments of the USA and the foreign policy we are executing due to YEARS of the same foreign policy that actually set the ground work for this war, and the WMD's to be something people would accept as a fact due to the presidency someone most didnt like ...........I have a mentall illness , ya its not fashionable to dog america my theory has nothing to do with the arrogance displayed by europeans/canadians ont he net in regards to "bush america"


and in your little diatribe you also said that the mean people who hate america (you dont though you just think alot of us have mental illnesses) are worse now due to bush........this I feel has some validity but you forget that AQ will hate us regardless to what we do , as long as we live the way we do, have those freedoms that no one is jealous of they will hate us and want to bring us down....THEY have said that not bush so regardless if you like our foreign policy or not they will continue their attacks on our interests

and in the end due to religion, something you seem to abhor, and I know the europeans on this board get a rash about, and due to that religion it is not accepted as a NORM to be homosexuall......he is fucked up

see to me it seem you have no tolerance for those who dont agree with your lifestyle and your beliefs and norms, and isnt that what you are criticizing me for doing? having a opinion other than yours which makes me have a mental illness ?

but thanks man, i will go see a doctor now to get a second opinion, and i will tell most of the people i deal with daily , the thousands of soldiers i know who share my views to go get help for thier mental illness

Jason: you create a long list of obnoxious and deliberately offensive insults - a veritable cornucopia of anti-Americanism at its crudest and most repellent, and then hide behind the claim that you are just generalizing! Shameless nonsense - and you know it.....

You even have the nerve to wrap this rancid junk in the guise of a patronizing lecture for those less enlightened than yourself.

At least have the courage and the decency to stand behind your assault instead of pretending that only "sentimental" people would be offended.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Interesting comments, but stereotypes are also shallow, dangerous and foolish. There are indeed Americans who behave badly. There are Brits who behave badly. There are Australians who do as well - and, in fact, tend to be quite a bit louder than others. German tourists are not always popular.

On the positive side, Americans tend to be friendlier and more polite than most other tourists. Always true? Of course not. But the idea that Americans are uniquely offensive is quite false.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

I don't understand. What belief?

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Crudest and most repellent? I hope you're not forgetting about the anti-Americanism that results in Americans being slaughtered and chants of "Death to America". That, I think, would be crudest and most repellent.

What Jason is doing is hardly anti-American, when put in this perspective.

__________________
“Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” -Dr. Carl Sagan

One thing I have noticed about non-Americans, especially Europeans it seems, is that few realize how large and diverse America and Americans are. Culturally, we are not as uniformed as many believe. That is why when I hear foreigners coming down on Americans for not experiencing other cultures I have to chuckle. Hell, if you just look at the whites in this country you would notice many cultural differences. For example; a white man from, say, Montana, has little in common with a white man from Alabama.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Isn't that redundant?

Kinda begs the question... what would be a 'refined Philistine'?

I'm too tired right now to go into it...my belief, as I hinted, relates to the "value" of the exercise we are engaging in on this thread and on Speakeasy's thread.

You said the thread was depressing. Why?

As I said, that comment bears out something I believe, but I would like to see how things go here first before I explain what is this belief.

I'll have to catch up to the other posts tomorrow. It's now past 1 am here, and I have to get some sleep.

Good night all.

Tethys

__________________
-- Harry S. Truman

Hmmm...interesting viewpoint.

I think Jason's ludicrous laundry list is indeed repellent. Does it compare to the example you provide? No - certainly not. I would not use the words 'crude' and 'repellent' to describe violence. I would use the word 'hatred'.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1