I don't get it. .. is it a phrase only ever used by the nazis when talking about art, or is "entartete" something you'd use naturally when saying something is "degenerate"?

..What does "entartede" mean literally, btw?

"entartete Kunst" means degenerate or abnormal art. It was the title of an exhibition. "Entartete Kunst" (degenerate art) is a term that was used by the Nazis to defame art that was Jewish or not German enough or whatever. The term is not banned or so. It's just that the obvious connotations of this expression with the Nazi terminology that makes it controversial, if used by a politician or some other public figure.

Degenerate art - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks. But is it a natural word to use in german language? (for instance when speaking of art?) Is it a trivial description of sorts - but just hasn't been used that much since the nazis because of the connotations?

Or is the word not really descriptive in most contexts when speaking of art, and therefore will very obviously taken to mean what the nazis didn't like?

Or has the word really changed since then, and has a different meaning (i.e., something not conforming with standards, etc.)?

"Entartet" isn't a very commonly used word. I guess it's probably used in biology or medicine or in such contexts, like for cancer cells or so. It is usually not used in everyday language. But that hasn't much to do with the Nazis, it's rather because of the meaning. I don't think it has been used to describe (or rather defame) art or music before. When speaking of "entartet" in the context of art, the connections to the Nazi term is pretty much unavoidable, even if the Cardinal didn't mean it that way. It probably was meant as some kind of provocation anyway. Cardinal Meisner is a rather controversial figure. And the criticism he faced is pretty much justified imho, not just because of political correctness, but because of the meaning of his words.

Oh, right..I think I understand now. "Entartet".. We have "Ondartet" in norwegian, which is used about cancer cells, or perhaps some ominously hidden and growing evil.

It's a lot stronger than "degenerate", no? More the opposite, really, since that would describe how something has fallen or having been reduced to nothing useful. While "Ondartet" would be something that's created with a malicious purpose of of some kind in the first place.

Yeah, I think "degenerate" doesn't fit 100%. But there obviously isn't a better translation for it. It rather means some kind of abnormal mutation. I don't know if it's necessarily implies a malicious "purpose" but at least in this context it goes in that direction.

This story is about characterizing art.
Regardless of the words, liberal societies characterize art subjectively "I like this, I hate this", while totalitarian societies characterize art objectively "This is good art, this art is degenerate".
Once you make the jump to objective categorization, you can make the case that the "bad" should be made illegal.

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In this case, it seems like both sides of the debate have jumped to "objective categorization". The bishop does it when he says some art is "entartete Kunst", the people critizising him do it when they say the term "entartete Kunst" is a Nazi term and should never be used in any other context.

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I think that the whole German language should be banned, because when i hear it, I have bad feelings because many of my relatives have died because of Germans.

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Shocking video of results of Georgian attack on South Osetia
CNN is spreading propaganda!
American witness: "Not only Georgia, but also U.S. are responsible for the violence in South Ossetia"
Mark Almond: It's simplistic to cast Russia as sole villain in South Ossetia clashes

So a language should be banned because people who happened to speak it were killers? If that is the standard we can ban all the other languages as well, Russian first of all. Poeple dont become killers because of the language they speak.

People should be allowed to be proud of their identity, language and history.

Please tell me the number of killed by Russians in your family?
I've got 5 people in my family who died because of Germans.

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Please watch this:


Shocking video of results of Georgian attack on South Osetia
CNN is spreading propaganda!
American witness: "Not only Georgia, but also U.S. are responsible for the violence in South Ossetia"
Mark Almond: It's simplistic to cast Russia as sole villain in South Ossetia clashes

Even if half my family was murdered by Germans it still wouldnt make sense to force all the Germans to speak another language. Its not the language that killed your family nor would changing the language help anything.

You didn't answer. What is the number of your relatives killed by Russians?

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Please watch this:


Shocking video of results of Georgian attack on South Osetia
CNN is spreading propaganda!
American witness: "Not only Georgia, but also U.S. are responsible for the violence in South Ossetia"
Mark Almond: It's simplistic to cast Russia as sole villain in South Ossetia clashes

I have no relatives killed by Russians nor Germans. The Polish part of my family got out of Poland before ww2 and only a few relatives of mine were in Dutch nazi labor camps during the war and they all survived it.

I dont want to ban any language. I dont see the point.

Mm. When it's not a medical reference to something that technically turns "entartet"?

What's the cardinal saying, anyway? That they shouldn't turn the church into something too modern? Is that what someone wanted? To replace the stained glass with a more modern pastel palette, or something?