Venezuela Again- Or Still - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Joao Dasilva · #1 (**permalink**) 09-18-2007

'The problem is that in the United States, the perception that Chavez is the enemy is continually shoved at Joe Sixpack.'

The speaker of those words was one Mark Weisbrot of the Center For Economic and Policy Research'. The venue was C-Span; a (so far) largely unedited source of facts.

'In the objective media that predominates the remainder of the world, this view is not present, because it is not credible.'

Here's the URL:

CEPR - Venezuela - 28k .

Here's an excerpt, found by Googling 'Mark Weisbrot'

'The Failure of Hugo-Bashing - Mark Weisbrot

Hugo Chavez's opposition to the "Washington consensus" on economic policy has fallen on sympathetic ears in a region that -- since 1980 -- has suffered its worst long-term economic failure in a century. In the contest for the hearts and minds of the Western hemisphere, Venezuela is clearly winning.
Keywords: economics; foreign policy; Venezuela; Chavez; oil; Citgo; Mark Weisbrot; CEPR'

Wonder how many here will actually read something that sheds light on just how full of shit the corporate media and the 'Taco Bell Scholars' are?

Alex16 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-19-2007

I don’t know if I am, being from an opposite hemisphere, to count but I will and do read.

Venezuela is doing great if you ask me. Doing away with IMF must be so invigorating. It's like one finally gets beautiful outdoors after spending years in heavily polluted megapolis. It’s like when someone puts a plastic bag around ones head, holds it there for ‘til all hopes are gone to break free, and then the bag gets removed. I do a poor wording describing breathtaking feeling people of Venezuela must be going through, although it must be something magic along those lines I gave here.

peace peace

Strider · #3 (**permalink**) 09-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joao Dasilva

'The problem is that in the United States, the perception that Chavez is the enemy is continually shoved at Joe Sixpack.'

You know, I keep hearing this from Chavez's cheering section, but I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate it(yeah, you have your lunatics on Fox, but even they don't devote more than a segment to him every now and then). Personally, I don't see Chavez getting a whole lot of attention in US media, either negative or positive. Frankly, I'd be surprised if most Americans even knew who the guy was.

Quote:

'In the objective media that predominates the remainder of the world, this view is not present, because it is not credible.'

Well, leaving aside for a second the fact that these views are not promoted in the US is rather bizarre claim to be coming from guy whose work is syndicated in over 500 American newspapers, the idea that outside the US, media coverage of Chavez doesn't portray him as an authoritarian with illiberal tendencies is just silly. Probably the single most consistent and articulate critic of Chavez has been The Economist, which is a British magazine(to hear Medialens tell it, just about every British publication except possibly The New Statesman is out to discredit Chavez).

Quote:

Hugo Chavez's opposition to the "Washington consensus" on economic policy has fallen on sympathetic ears in a region that -- since 1980 -- has suffered its worst long-term economic failure in a century. In the contest for the hearts and minds of the Western hemisphere, Venezuela is clearly winning.

Actually, it's not. A latinobarometro poll earlier this year showed that the percentage of Latin Americans with a negative view of Chavez was about the same as those who have a negative view of Bush. Interesting, no?

Then there's the fact that his very public support for Humala during the Peruvian elections backfired and led to Garcia's win. And the fact that even many of his domestic supporters have been a bit taken aback by his increase in radicalism after winning the December elections. So, I'd have to say that, in Latin America in general, his influence seems to have peaked.

And of course, when talking about the current political state in Latin America in general, some people are just seeing what they want to see. As I've said before, the current state of Latin American politics is many things, but one thing it most certainly isn't is the mass revolt against the Washington Consensus some people so desperately want it to be. Sorry 'bout that chap.

Strider · #4 (**permalink**) 09-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex16

Venezuela is doing great if you ask me.

Oh, absolutely, poverty's barely budged(so the Venezuelan government redefined it in such a way as to make it seem like it was dropping), crime is rampant(the murder rate's tripled in recent years), and inequality has actually gone up slightly.

Alex16 · #5 (**permalink**) 09-19-2007

Strider, you are funny. How many homeless and needy people are out there in LA? DONT dissapear, please. Every one before you had. Numbers, gas prices, real estate outlooks, homeless, # of people ready to kill your nazi governor, please.
Hispanics desporate to skin your kind. Gang wars, deaths, discrimination, police brutality, mayham, illigal gambling, scam economics, porn industry, prostitution in hand with the above, strong voice of breaking at last free from the DC rule and become INDEPENDED entity???? Being you -- I'd shut my hole up.

Strider · #6 (**permalink**) 09-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex16

Strider, you are funny. How many homeless and needy people are out there in LA? DONT dissapear, please. Every one before you had. Numbers, gas prices, real estate outlooks, homeless, # of people ready to kill your nazi governor, please.
Hispanics desporate to skin your kind. Gang wars, deaths, discrimination, police brutality, mayham, illigal gambling, scam economics, porn industry, prostitution in hand with the above, strong voice of breaking at last free from the DC rule and become INDEPENDED entity???? Being you -- I'd shut my hole up.

Dude, seriously, this is damn near incoherent. What does any of it have to do with Venezuela?

Anyway, does this mean you concede the point that crime in Venezuela is up, inequality has risen slightly, and poverty has barely budged? You didn't actually answer any of those contentions, so I guess that means you agree.

Quote:

DONT dissapear, please.

You mean like this thread, where I answered your contentions about Russian military bases outside of Russian borders, after which, you never came back?

Russia renewing the pissing contest with America

Alex16 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007

Yes, I agree. Once more, please, on Russian bases..I didn't find any reference, must be tired or else. Please, post that link once more. Respect, man.

Alex16 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex16

Yes, I agree. Once more, please, on Russian bases..I didn't find any reference, must be tired or else. Please, post that link once more. Respect, man.

I stand here....

Strider · #9 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007

Click the link I provided, and scroll to post #103, I answered you almost a week ago.

Does this mean you concede the points I made about Venezuela?

Alex16 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-21-2007

Strider, just what is it about Venezuela except for her dumped the idea of trading oil in USD? I only hope you know what THAT implies. That's why she demonized..no other reason exists there. Next to her is Colombia...you know, the entity supplying precious dope to LA along with Afganistan (thanks to NATO effort)?..No doubt it's a great business and USD is the currency of choise on international drug market..(soon even them will switch to euro) Yet, it's Chavez to blame for every possible sin out there.
U.S. Media: ChÃ¡vez-Bashing of Old Begins Anew | venezuelanalysis.com

Post #103 -- I got it. Thanks btw. So what are those would be...hmmm..let's see..Ukraina? Yepp..Anything else? Look -- if you don't know --- don't post this, alright? Russian bases...How horrible. Militarism in its best..In a meantime US has over 120 countries occupied with millitary personel. I don't know..How you got a damned nerve to say all this..you'd better said nothing at all, I swear.

Socalism, commies --- what is socialism? Is this it Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ? How come this is moked here the hard core style? Just how bad is it?

Alex16 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-21-2007

Strider, "..Dude, seriously, this is damn near incoherent. What does any of it have to do with Venezuela?"

Just a quick reality check, bro

Joao Dasilva · #12 (**permalink**) 09-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider

You know, I keep hearing this from Chavez's cheering section, but I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate it(yeah, you have your lunatics on Fox, but even they don't devote more than a segment to him every now and then). Personally, I don't see Chavez getting a whole lot of attention in US media, either negative or positive. Frankly, I'd be surprised if most Americans even knew who the guy was.

Well, leaving aside for a second the fact that these views are not promoted in the US is rather bizarre claim to be coming from guy whose work is syndicated in over 500 American newspapers, the idea that outside the US, media coverage of Chavez doesn't portray him as an authoritarian with illiberal tendencies is just silly. Probably the single most consistent and articulate critic of Chavez has been The Economist, which is a British magazine(to hear Medialens tell it, just about every British publication except possibly The New Statesman is out to discredit Chavez).

Actually, it's not. A latinobarometro poll earlier this year showed that the percentage of Latin Americans with a negative view of Chavez was about the same as those who have a negative view of Bush. Interesting, no?

Then there's the fact that his very public support for Humala during the Peruvian elections backfired and led to Garcia's win. And the fact that even many of his domestic supporters have been a bit taken aback by his increase in radicalism after winning the December elections. So, I'd have to say that, in Latin America in general, his influence seems to have peaked.

And of course, when talking about the current political state in Latin America in general, some people are just seeing what they want to see. As I've said before, the current state of Latin American politics is many things, but one thing it most certainly isn't is the mass revolt against the Washington Consensus some people so desperately want it to be. Sorry 'bout that chap.

Which is why Lula runs Brasil, Kirchner has the reins in Argentina, and a Lozada is in Bolivia.

From first hand experience, I can say anyone who thinks that America Latina is NOT anti-US corporate imperialism is very ill informed.

Strider · #13 (**permalink**) 09-22-2007

Quote:

Which is why Lula runs Brasil, Kirchner has the reins in Argentina, and a Lozada is in Bolivia.

Lozada hasn't been in office for 3 years, I'm assuming you mean Morales.

Either way, it's silly to lump Lula(and Vazquez, and Concertacion in Chile)into the same camp as Chavez, Morales, Kirchner, et al. The two groups come from very different traditions, and they follow very different policies. Quite frankly, Lula's policies have been about as neo-liberal as you can get, really not overly different from Cardoso's.

Again, you're seeing what you want to see, not what's really going on.

Quote:

From first hand experience, I can say anyone who thinks that America Latina is NOT anti-US corporate imperialism is very ill informed.

Apparently it's so obvious you don't feel a need to respond to anything I actually said.

Of course, you're shifting the frame of the argument, I didn't say anything about a hostility to 'US corporate imperialism'(tm), I said that the current political situation in Latin America is far more complex than some people wish to believe it is, and that it doesn't signify this much touted shift to the left that some folks are wetting their pants over.

Joao Dasilva · #14 (**permalink**) 09-22-2007

Lula is FHC!??

Tell that to the expats at 'The Brasilians'!
Have you ever been to Latin America?

Strider · #15 (**permalink**) 09-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex16

Strider, just what is it about Venezuela except for her dumped the idea of trading oil in USD? I only hope you know what THAT implies. That's why she demonized..no other reason exists there. Next to her is Colombia...you know, the entity supplying precious dope to LA along with Afganistan (thanks to NATO effort)?..No doubt it's a great business and USD is the currency of choise on international drug market..(soon even them will switch to euro) Yet, it's Chavez to blame for every possible sin out there.

Um, I realize english isn't your first language, but again, I really don't understand what in the blue fuck you're talking about.

Quote:

Post #103 -- I got it. Thanks btw. So what are those would be...hmmm..let's see..Ukraina? Yepp..Anything else?

Permanent bases in Armenia and Kyrgyzstan, temporary presences in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and Transinistria, and radar and communications installations in Belarus.

Quote:

Look -- if you don't know --- don't post this, alright?

See above.

Quote:

Russian bases...How horrible. Militarism in its best..In a meantime US has over 120 countries occupied with millitary personel. I don't know..How you got a damned nerve to say all this..you'd better said nothing at all, I swear.

You asked me what military bases Russia has operating outside it's borders. I answered you. Sorry if you find that audacious.

You seem to have a serious chip on your shoulder relating to the US, it muddies your judgment.

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